I have hit a brick wall when searching for my relatives on my fathers side. I know that my fathers Grandparents were William Grant and Helen Duncan. William and Helen were married on 20 March 1888 in Limefield Parish Brechin, Scotland and moved to Australia soon after. I have been told the Helen Duncan's parents were William Duncan and Susan Kristy (Christie). I think I have found the Marriage record of William Grant and Helen Duncan but this is where it gets tricky. On the record Helen's mothers maiden name is Christie and married name is Duncan but I am having trouble reading the record I think it says Agnes and Helen's Fathers name I think reads James Duncan.
I have been looking through Ancestory.com and also scotspeople but I was wondering if there was any where else I can look or if some one was kind enough to lend a hand from Scotland especially around the Brechin area.
Shelly
Hit a Brick wall
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JustJean
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Re: Hit a Brick wall
Hmmmm.....well....a very quick look is making me think that the parents names were James Duncan and Ann Christie. The MC certainly says James Duncan farm servant as father and it could be Agnes or Annie Duncan mn Christie for mother. Both parents are indicated as still living in 1888. Also the age of Helen at marriage is 21. So that puts her birth year at approx 1867. A look on familysearch turns up births to James Duncan and Ann Christie as
Jean Duncan 1858 in Aberlemno Angus,
James 1859 in Stracathro,
William 1861 in Menmuir,
Mary Anne 1863 Tannadice,
Ellen 1866 Tannadice,
Agnes 1868 Tannadice,
Ann 1870 Tannadice,
Susan 1873 Brechin.
Note that Ellen and Helen are always interchangeable names so I'm eyeing that Ellen in 1866 to be your gal. Note too from the MC that there was a witness names Agnes Duncan...and sure enough this Ellen here has a younger sister Agnes. So next I looked for the family in 1871 Tannadice to see if father's occupation fit and yup he's an Ag. Lab. So then I looked for them in 1881 and by then Ellen/Helen is living in Brechin and is enumerated as a domestic with the family she is working for. This occupation matches that given on her MC. Her sister Agnes is also in Brechin as a domestic in a separate household. The rest of the family is still in Brechin and they've added yet another daughter b. about 1876 named Elizabeth. I haven't looked further for the possible origins of the names William and Susan but you will note that this Ellen/Helen does have siblings by those names. Perhaps they come from an earlier generation...or perhaps the info just got scrambled. I guess, to be certain, this family I've just tossed needs to be thoroughly looked at before confirming they are the right match for you. I have a feeling they might be.
Best wishes
Jean
Jean Duncan 1858 in Aberlemno Angus,
James 1859 in Stracathro,
William 1861 in Menmuir,
Mary Anne 1863 Tannadice,
Ellen 1866 Tannadice,
Agnes 1868 Tannadice,
Ann 1870 Tannadice,
Susan 1873 Brechin.
Note that Ellen and Helen are always interchangeable names so I'm eyeing that Ellen in 1866 to be your gal. Note too from the MC that there was a witness names Agnes Duncan...and sure enough this Ellen here has a younger sister Agnes. So next I looked for the family in 1871 Tannadice to see if father's occupation fit and yup he's an Ag. Lab. So then I looked for them in 1881 and by then Ellen/Helen is living in Brechin and is enumerated as a domestic with the family she is working for. This occupation matches that given on her MC. Her sister Agnes is also in Brechin as a domestic in a separate household. The rest of the family is still in Brechin and they've added yet another daughter b. about 1876 named Elizabeth. I haven't looked further for the possible origins of the names William and Susan but you will note that this Ellen/Helen does have siblings by those names. Perhaps they come from an earlier generation...or perhaps the info just got scrambled. I guess, to be certain, this family I've just tossed needs to be thoroughly looked at before confirming they are the right match for you. I have a feeling they might be.
Best wishes
Jean
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trish1
- Posts: 1320
- Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:38 am
- Location: australia
Re: Hit a Brick wall
Hi Shelly
In what state of Australia did your couple settle? Do you have a death certificate for Helen? Most of the states would have her parent names on a death certificate, if the informant knew same. Do you have an approx birth date - her age should be given at her death & also (in many states) on the birth of any children. This should help verify whether Jean has found the right family
Trish
In what state of Australia did your couple settle? Do you have a death certificate for Helen? Most of the states would have her parent names on a death certificate, if the informant knew same. Do you have an approx birth date - her age should be given at her death & also (in many states) on the birth of any children. This should help verify whether Jean has found the right family
Trish
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sjw_79
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:09 pm
Re: Hit a Brick wall
Jean
Oh my goodness. What you mentioned in your post is what I am seeing on a possible MC that I have found. I am so glad that some one else has come to the same conclusion as me. Now at least I have a lead into who my GGG Grandparents might be. I had also seen this info in the Scottish Census but put it on the back burner as it did not match my William and Susan infomation. Thank you very much for your hard work Jean. It is very much appreciated.
Trish
William and Helen to my knowledge settled in QLD as all of their children were born there. As for death certificates, I have not found hide nor hair of those elusive records yet. I have found Birth records for most of their children and possibly 2 extra girls that we had not had listed previously. I do believe in my quick browsing since reading Jean's post that she may have hit the nail on the head and found the lead to the correct family.
To both you lovely ladies I thank you very much for the time you spent looking for my family.
Oh my goodness. What you mentioned in your post is what I am seeing on a possible MC that I have found. I am so glad that some one else has come to the same conclusion as me. Now at least I have a lead into who my GGG Grandparents might be. I had also seen this info in the Scottish Census but put it on the back burner as it did not match my William and Susan infomation. Thank you very much for your hard work Jean. It is very much appreciated.
Trish
William and Helen to my knowledge settled in QLD as all of their children were born there. As for death certificates, I have not found hide nor hair of those elusive records yet. I have found Birth records for most of their children and possibly 2 extra girls that we had not had listed previously. I do believe in my quick browsing since reading Jean's post that she may have hit the nail on the head and found the lead to the correct family.
To both you lovely ladies I thank you very much for the time you spent looking for my family.
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trish1
- Posts: 1320
- Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:38 am
- Location: australia
Re: Hit a Brick wall
Hi Shelly
It seems Jean definitely found the right family. This looks to be the index to the death certificate for Ellen
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m
1918/C3671 Ellen Grant James Duncan Ann Christie (The C in the index indicates a death outside of Brisbane)
This is the best that I can find for WIlliam - although I think the informant has the mother's name incorrect (quite possible) and the age a little out
1927/C3537 William Grant William Grant Jean - ** born Scotland aged 62 years
Back in Scotland - is this the family of William?
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... _form=true
Birth on IGI William Grant 21 Sep 1867 Keith, Banff, Scotland parents William Grant and Ann McIntosh
1871 Census - best I can find - not having much luck for 1881
1871 Aberdeenshire Tullynessle and Forbes
Shepherds House
William Grant head 24 ag lab born Carnia Banff
Ann Grant wife 23 born Keith, Morayshire
William Grant son 3 born Keith Morayshire
Jean Grant dau 1 born Tulleynessle Aberdeen
This would appear to be the immigration - are you near Brisbane - you can check the films at the state archives
Immigration perhaps http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/research ... ration.asp
GRANT Ellen 21 Duke of Sutherland 15 Jun 1888
GRANT William 20 on board same ship
On the BDM CDs - dates are given - these are the children I found - mother is Ellen or Helen
Agnes born 31 Dec 1888 died 28 Oct 1890
Isabella 20 Mar 1891
William James 27 May 1894
Elizabeth Ellen 9 Dec 1896 died 16 Jan 1897
Alexander 8 Mar 1898
Charles hector 23 Aug 1901
Mary Ann 29 Jun 1904
George John 6 Feb 1907
Vera Olive - no father listed 7 Dec 1909 - may be a different family - mother given as Ellen Duncan.
I could only find a WIlliam and Ellen together on the Electoral roll in 1903 - the indexing is often in error
1903 Darling Downs Jondaryan
Ellen Grant Wonga Plains domestic duties
William Grant Wonga Plains labourer
As Jondaryan is near Toowoomba, I checked the Toowoomba burials and found these - may be yours? Did they live in the Toowoomba district?
Toowoomba Grave Finder Name, age, gender, death date, burial date, cemetery, sect, block, allotment
GRANT , ELLEN 53 Female 09 September 1918 11 September 1919[sic] Drayton Pres 3 3 55 - hopefully an error in the burial year
GRANT , WILLIAM 59 Male 03 August 1927 05 August 1927 Drayton Pres 3 10 41
There was another William died in 1943 - age a little out - interesting that the 1927 burial has a different age to the death certificate?
http://www.toowoombarc.qld.gov.au/ - select grave finder on the RHS menu
hope this helps
Trish
It seems Jean definitely found the right family. This looks to be the index to the death certificate for Ellen
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m
1918/C3671 Ellen Grant James Duncan Ann Christie (The C in the index indicates a death outside of Brisbane)
This is the best that I can find for WIlliam - although I think the informant has the mother's name incorrect (quite possible) and the age a little out
1927/C3537 William Grant William Grant Jean - ** born Scotland aged 62 years
Back in Scotland - is this the family of William?
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... _form=true
Birth on IGI William Grant 21 Sep 1867 Keith, Banff, Scotland parents William Grant and Ann McIntosh
1871 Census - best I can find - not having much luck for 1881
1871 Aberdeenshire Tullynessle and Forbes
Shepherds House
William Grant head 24 ag lab born Carnia Banff
Ann Grant wife 23 born Keith, Morayshire
William Grant son 3 born Keith Morayshire
Jean Grant dau 1 born Tulleynessle Aberdeen
This would appear to be the immigration - are you near Brisbane - you can check the films at the state archives
Immigration perhaps http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/research ... ration.asp
GRANT Ellen 21 Duke of Sutherland 15 Jun 1888
GRANT William 20 on board same ship
On the BDM CDs - dates are given - these are the children I found - mother is Ellen or Helen
Agnes born 31 Dec 1888 died 28 Oct 1890
Isabella 20 Mar 1891
William James 27 May 1894
Elizabeth Ellen 9 Dec 1896 died 16 Jan 1897
Alexander 8 Mar 1898
Charles hector 23 Aug 1901
Mary Ann 29 Jun 1904
George John 6 Feb 1907
Vera Olive - no father listed 7 Dec 1909 - may be a different family - mother given as Ellen Duncan.
I could only find a WIlliam and Ellen together on the Electoral roll in 1903 - the indexing is often in error
1903 Darling Downs Jondaryan
Ellen Grant Wonga Plains domestic duties
William Grant Wonga Plains labourer
As Jondaryan is near Toowoomba, I checked the Toowoomba burials and found these - may be yours? Did they live in the Toowoomba district?
Toowoomba Grave Finder Name, age, gender, death date, burial date, cemetery, sect, block, allotment
GRANT , ELLEN 53 Female 09 September 1918 11 September 1919[sic] Drayton Pres 3 3 55 - hopefully an error in the burial year
GRANT , WILLIAM 59 Male 03 August 1927 05 August 1927 Drayton Pres 3 10 41
There was another William died in 1943 - age a little out - interesting that the 1927 burial has a different age to the death certificate?
http://www.toowoombarc.qld.gov.au/ - select grave finder on the RHS menu
hope this helps
Trish
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sjw_79
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:09 pm
Re: Hit a Brick wall
Trish
You are an absolute gem. The info you have found helps me in ways you would not believe. Some of the info, both you and Jean, you have found have been little gold nuggets. The kind of help you ladies have provided, not knowing me or my family, is very much invaluable. I thank you very much
You are an absolute gem. The info you have found helps me in ways you would not believe. Some of the info, both you and Jean, you have found have been little gold nuggets. The kind of help you ladies have provided, not knowing me or my family, is very much invaluable. I thank you very much