Convicts 1788 transported to Aus .....

Wee Ina · Post by **Wee Ina** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:45 pm

Hello Everyone,

Firstly a Merry Christmas to everyone at TalkingScot.com and all the best for 2007

I am in need of some advice please.....

I have found an ancestor that was transported on the first fleet (The Scarborough) to NSW.

I managed to find his Old Bailey Trial docs and lists saying that he was actually on the ship also that he disembarked in NSW.

My problem is I am really not sure what to do next. I would like to find out what became of him after he landed how long he survived etc.

I have come across a few sites that can help me for a fee but thought I would ask here first and take any advice offered before I go overspending as I normally do.

Any advice appreciated.

Many Thanks

Wee Ina

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:11 pm

I'd suggest a richt guid Google looking for books in the first instance, since First Fleeters are generally well recorded.

Also, how about an email to the main NSW FHS in Sydney?, - Society of Australian Genealogists at http://www.sag.org.au/index0.htm , seeking their advice, based on the info that you have to date.

It might turn out to be worth your while joining SAG, - ca. £23 + a one-off joining fee.

It may well be the case that further research will cost you a few bawbees, but first get the advice of local experts.

David

Wee Ina · Post by **Wee Ina** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:00 pm

Thank you very much David for your suggestions. It was thanks to Google that I managed to find so much information in the first place.

I shall join the SAG in the new year as funds are a little on the tight side with it being christmas.

Once again many thanks for the suggestions David.

All the best for christmas and 2007

Wee Ina

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:59 pm

Wee Ina wrote:Thank you very much David for your suggestions. It was thanks to Google that I managed to find so much information in the first place.

I shall join the SAG in the new year as funds are a little on the tight side with it being christmas.

Once again many thanks for the suggestions David.

All the best for christmas and 2007

Wee Ina

No need to join SAG in the first instance, unless they make it clear that they can't provide assistance to a non-member !!

David

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:49 am

Hello Wee Ina

And a Merry Christmas to you and everyone on Talking Scot

As DWW said previously First Fleet convicts are well documented here in Oz. You might already know about this site but just incase you dont.

http://firstfleet.uow.edu.au/

It has a downloadable (for private use) database on First Fleet convicts. I havent searched it myself as I dont have a name to see what information they provide. But according to the first page after clicking the database, they may provide information on when they died, who they married etc

Later on there are Pioneer indexes available for most states, although they are a tad on the expensive side to purchase privately

These indexes may give further information on any family the person might have had later. As they may have been granted a ticket of leave after a period of time. And anyway they may have also got up to a bit of what d ye call it with other convicts

I know they are available to search at our state libraries here, but I dont know of their availability in your area libraries.

All the best with your searching.

trish1 · Post by **trish1** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:40 am

Hello Wee Ina

I also have a first fleet convict who was on the Scarborough & convicted at the Old Bailey - He was James Morrisby (Just in case it is the same one).

The following book should be available in a good library

Molly Gillen: Founders of Australia - it contains a biography of EVERY first fleeter & is a fabulous resource.

The Founders of Australia: A Biographical Dictionary of the First Fleet, Sydney, Library of Australian History, 1989. This is the seminal work on the first fleet that led to her honourary doctorate and being awarded the Order of Australia.

If perchance, your man ended up on Norfolk Is and then went to Tasmania (as did mine) I can give you some more sources. Most first fleeters ended up in Sydney or Tasmania (via Norfolk) Both the NSW and Tasmanian archives have much convict information - and you may well be able to trace him to the 20th century via BDM indexes / certificates (Most Aust births after 1905 have restricted access, but other research data is available). For a very small charge you can buy the AVRI from the LDS in the UK. It covers BDMs for NSW Vic WA and Tas for most of the 19th century. I have a copy if you would like any lookups. NSW is free online and Vic is online (for a fee).
http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/ Tas archives
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/ NSW Archives
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory ... ecords.htm NSW BDM online

A really good option (as you have already found) would be to Google your ancestors name - you will probably find many references and many other's who are descended from your man.

Chrismas wishes

Trish

PS If you would like to provide your ancestor's name I would be happy to do some checking for you in the New Year. My local library does have Molly's book which would provide a great starting place.

Wee Ina · Post by **Wee Ina** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:33 pm

Hello Stew L and Trish 1

Thank you so much for your suggestions

The chap I am trying to find out more about is Thomas Clements.

Old Bailey Trial Summary:
Crime(s): theft : simple grand larceny,
Punishment Type: transportation,
Verdict: Guilty,
Original Text: 680. THOMAS CLEMENTS was indicted for stealing one guinea, value 1 l. 1 s. the monies of William Largent
Thomas was transported for 7 years.

Molly Gillen: Founders of Australia – Thank you I thought this book was only available in Aus so I shall try to order it in my main library in Plymouth in the New Year.

Thanks once again for all your help it is really most appreciated.

Merry Christmas to you both

Wee Ina

trish1 · Post by **trish1** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:18 am

Looking at the catalogue for my local library - Mollie's book is on the shelf - so I will check it for you in the coming days (not sure when it is open). This should give a good starting point for your research.

Sadly there are no references in the book - what started as a wonderful idea for the Australian Bicentenary (1988) had a rather tragic ending as the author's husband died when they came to Australia for the final research trip. It was wonderful that it was finished and published afterwards.

It seems amazing today that folks were transported for such crimes. My man stole an iron bar worth 10 pence. He was on a hulk from 1784 until he came to Australia.

Trish

trish1 · Post by **trish1** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:11 am

Hello Wee Ina

Unfortunately there is little to be found of your man in Australia. I did find mention of a Thomas Clements in the NSW Index - Bench of Magistrates Cases & thought it may be him. It seems it was & this is the only reference Molly Gillen and her researchers found as well.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/s ... aspx?id=11

Apart from the details from the Old Bailey, the only information in the book is

1. After sentencing on 7 July 1784, he was received on the Censor hulk on 6 September - aged 19 - so born c. 1764/5. He was ordered to Portsmouth by waggon on 24 February 1787 for embarkation on Scarborough on the 27th.

2. At Port Jackson on 27 Sept 1788 he was charged with the theft of 16 turkey eggs (the index entry is in the above reference) from the Governor's farm. He was discharged when he explained he was taking them to Mr Dodd. (As per the book this was Henry Edward Dodd who came as a seaman on the Sirius but stayed ashore & was in charge of the convicts employed in Farming. )

No further mention of him was found in Colonial records.

This would indicate that he probably stayed in Sydney. Unless he committed other crimes, he should have been free by 1791/2 as he had served much of his sentence before arriving in Australia. Certificates of Freedom from these very early years do not appear to have survived in the records. He may have died here - or even returned to England. If he had married and had children in Australia it would be likely that some records would be found. (although many early church records have been lost)

From 1788 to 1856 the only birth, death or marriage records kept in NSW were the registers maintained by the established churches. The Registry holds transcriptions of these early church records. Any surviving original registers are located in the NSW Archives.
Unfortunately, the extant records for this period are not comprehensive. Some ministers, missionaries and other authorised administrators kept records but not all were in a position to be this diligent. In addition many of the records contain inaccuracies and bad spelling. Distances to town centres, distrust of authority and lack of participation in formal church services contributed to the church registration system's inability to record adequately the details of all births, deaths and marriages that occurred in NSW. http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/celebrate/church.html

I can find no record of his death/marriage in the NSW online index.

Regards

Trish

Wee Ina · Post by **Wee Ina** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:29 pm

Hello Trish,

Well what can i say except for you are just wonderful. Thank you so very much for all your help.

I hope you had a good Christmas. I am so sorry I haven’t replied sooner but the Christmas break has been busier than usual this year and I just haven’t had the time to log on.

I do agree with you though it is just amazing what people were transported for in those days. Once I started reading the old bailey records I was looking for my nose was twitching and I went on to read a fair few more. Looking at some of the crimes and the punishments, today they would be forgotten about due to the paperwork involved.

With all the information you have supplied I am not exactly sure what to do next. I may chance my arm and suggest sending me to Aus may be the next step – lol

Many many thanks again your help is much appreciated. I have now printed off all the replies and am going to sit with a coffee and digest them all.

Take care

Ina