Alvie parish in Badenoch

The History and Geography of Auld Scotia

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AndrewP
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Re: Alvie parish in Badenoch

Post by AndrewP » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:40 am

Hi Iain,

In case you are unfamiliar with where to find the old maps of Scotland - on the National Library of Scotland's website.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=1 ... yers=6&b=1

All the best,

AndrewP

McBsofKingussie
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Re: Alvie parish in Badenoch

Post by McBsofKingussie » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:43 pm

Hi AndrewP,

Thank you.
I was about to post Lyn and ask for a 1700s geography lesson but this has done a lot of it for me.

Are you another McBain hunter?

Iain

McBsofKingussie
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Re: Alvie parish in Badenoch

Post by McBsofKingussie » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:09 pm

Hi Lynn,

Wow. That's brilliant.
If your theory about William is right, you've just handed me the most difficult piece of the family tree from the late 1600s to 1756.
I had not even begun to look at that. Many thanks.

I also thought that the William born in 1756 was the most likely candidate.
However, I was dubious on three fronts:

1. The nearest Helen (b 1750) would have been 6.5 years older than him. Is that very unusual for the 1700s? Maybe she was a widow?
2. The naming pattern of their children: Donald (my gg grandfather), May, and possibly John, doesn't relate strongly to anything. Maybe I have put too much emphasis on this?
3. The general feeling that lots of births were unrecorded and William and/or Helen could be amongst them.

I think you are basing your hunch on the geography which, now that I've looked at the old OS map (courtesy of AndrewP), makes sense.

Here are a couple of other bits of information which may help support this:

a. My gg grandfather's sister, May, married John Fraser (a carpenter from Aird near Beauly) who worked on the Belleville (Balavil) estate for many years. They lived in Lynchat.
It looks like that is in the middle of the area we are talking about.

b. My gg grandfather, Donald, was a shepherd and is described in his marriage entry (1808) as a servant to Angus (cattle drover) and Margaret McEdward at Kerrow Meadhonach, Raitts.
Donald and Anne named their first two children Angus and Margaret, presumably after their employers. After that, they followed a strict naming pattern.

Any thoughts on that?

The one bit of geography I can't find is the location of Aban, Helen's birthplace. Can you pinpoint it ?

Its quite cool that we may be related!
My father was a Finlay and he always said that he was named after a worthy ancestor although I can't find any prior to your Finlay.

Iain

re lockdown: This is a lockdown project for me. Started with nothing on paternal or maternal side and thanks to people like you I may have got both back to the 1600s. Scotland's People is pretty good too.

Spacot
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Re: Alvie parish in Badenoch

Post by Spacot » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:32 pm

Hi Iain,

I am glad Andrew added the NLS link, I am always worried about 'teaching my granny to suck eggs'.

I have never been able to identify Aban either, been looking on and off for years only information I have is it is on the lands of Dalraddy and probably too small to feature on the maps at the time, it disappears by 1800. The closest I have come is on the 6" OS map of 1875 . If yo line up Delfoor and Dalraddy just below, above the word moor is a road and 3 separate buildings they could be Aban i can't find a name for them. Interesting side note, Belleville was originally the lands of Raits owned by McIntosh of Borlum, after the 45 rebellion he was proclaimed outlaw and his lands confiscated. the property was bought by 'Ossian' McPherson and renamed at one point an ancestor of ours Lachlan McBain was his butler there.

A point about your query re William/Helen, it is possible Helen died and the next girl was also named Helen, this is very common I have also found other marriages where the groom is a bit younger especially if the bride has a dowery. John Donald and Mary are very common family names in the McBains as are Finlay and Lauchlan, children may be named after favourite uncles grandparents etc and as you noted employers, not forgetting the landowner.

From my not very good memory, there was a Finlay McBain/Bean at Culloden. Quick history lesson, half of Alvie was owned by Gordons strong Hanovarian supporters the rest by McIntosh and McPherson faithful Jacobites so half the parish was on one side the rest on the other, the workers had to give so many days 'fighting' as part of their rents which side they supported was down to the landowners not their personal beliefs.

A very good book to read if you can find it is Every Day Life on an Old Highland Farm, 1769 - 1782
by Isabel Frances Grant
Dr Grant's book is based on an account book kept by William Mackintosh of Balnespick between 1769 and 1782. He leased his land in Badenoch, upper Strath Spey, as a tacksman of Mackintosh of Mackintosh. Drawing on the information and her wide-knowledge of Highland history, custom and conditions she paints a picture of a life before the old methods of farming died out, and whilst the glens were densely populated.

Lynn
Researching
SANSON anywhere, MCBAIN inverness/aberdeenshire/glasgow,
KELLY ireland/glasgow, BELL ireland/campsie/glasgow

McBsofKingussie
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Re: Alvie parish in Badenoch

Post by McBsofKingussie » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:36 pm

Thanks Lynn,

I have noticed the tendency to re-use the name of a deceased child.
Its remarkable given that people in the 1700s were probably a lot more superstitious than they are today.

I guess I'm going to be wondering about William and Helen for ever. I really hope your educated guess is right.
Does new information come up very much in your research into 17th and 18th century Badenoch?

You mentioned earlier that you could send me some of the relevant documentation you've used.
What would that be?

I've just ordered the book!

I imagine you have seen this website. Its mostly focused on the McPhersons but its got lots of interesting social recollections and gravestone information around Kingussie. Its also where (pg101) I confirmed the connection between Donald and his sister. Sadly it also confirmed the death of his eldest daughter Margaret aged 14.

https://www.clan-macpherson.org/museum/ ... impses.pdf

Iain

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Re: Alvie parish in Badenoch

Post by AndrewP » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:14 pm

McBsofKingussie wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:43 pm
I was about to post Lyn and ask for a 1700s geography lesson but this has done a lot of it for me.

Are you another McBain hunter?
My Scottish roots are 99% in the central belt, and no McBains found so far.

The NLS maps website is a great resource. It is well worth raking around. Have plenty time when you do so; you will spend longer than you planned to do.

You noted the re-use of names of deceased children. My opinion of this is not so much superstition as the use of the traditional naming patterns where children are named after grandparents or parents in a specific sequence. If a child died young, the next child born of the same gender was often given that name. I see it as respect being paid to the older generations.

All the best,

AndrewP

Spacot
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Location: Wigtownshire

Re: Alvie parish in Badenoch

Post by Spacot » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:59 pm

Hi Iain, sorry not to reply yesterday, was doing a local history quiz.
I have compiled a document of all the OPR mentions of McBains in Alvie church records 1700 to 1800 and included any other mentions I have found in Kirk session records, gravestones, wills etc They are arranged alphabetically in 3 groups according to the dates 1713to 21, 1729 to 66 1780 to 1800. I thought you might find it useful to fill out your tree but it is 11 pages long to much to post here.

Every year more data is being uploaded, I did my McBain research in late 1990's so there is probably more out there now. I am Intending revisiting all my family lines to see what is new soon. I am working on my Niece in Law's family at the moment, once I finish that I am intending going back to the beginning again.

I have visited the McPherson museum it is fascinating full of local history and McBain history.
Lynn
Researching
SANSON anywhere, MCBAIN inverness/aberdeenshire/glasgow,
KELLY ireland/glasgow, BELL ireland/campsie/glasgow

McBsofKingussie
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Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:58 pm

Re: Alvie parish in Badenoch

Post by McBsofKingussie » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:03 am

Hi Lynn,

I bet you are a good person to have on your team in a Scottish history quiz.

re the documents: are they digital? Can they be sent by PM or email?

A bit of interesting research for both of us:

I delved into passenger lists of people who emigrated from the Highlands in the 19th century.

I discovered something interesting regarding a couple called Paul and Anne McBain who lived in Kingussie in the early 1800s.
They had six kids, the last four named according to strict pattern of grandparent/parent names.
The first two were named Helen and William. A possible link to my elusive ggg grandparents.

Looking at the passenger lists I discovered that Paul died in 1820. He was a road construction worker so maybe an accident.
Anne emigrated with her four youngest children in 1838. She was also a McBain born around 1787. Her parents were Alex McB and Elizabeth Cameron.
Alex was a marine so presumably was away a lot of the time.
Could it be that Alex was Finlay and William's brother (as per your analysis, he was born circa 1769) and that William and Helen played a role in Anne's upbringing, hence the naming of their eldest kids?

There is an Alexander and a Finlay both aged 70+ in the census of 1841 living in Kingussie.

Detective work in old Scotland is a lot of fun.

Iain

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