8 Elgin Villas, Shawlands - is this it?.....

[LesleyB]

Hi all
I've been trying for a while to trace the exact building where some of my lot were living in 1871:

• 1871 Eastwood 562 En dist 12 page 27
  no.107, 8 Elgin Villas,
  Daniel Mcnicol H widr. 45 Master Mason, employing 12 men, 2 boys and 3 labourers, born Bonhill
  Archibald son un 15 scholar,
  James un 14 scholar,
  Maggie dau un 13 scholar,
  Daniel son un 9 scholar,
  Alexander son 7 scholar, William son 5, born Eastwood,
  Jennatt, aunt ( but she's his sister really), un 38, housekeeper, Bonhill

Looking at the map here:
http://www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/to ... hwest.html
and click on square x.2.16, just under where it says Eastwood.

The order of houses in that street (Pollockshaws Road) in the 1881 census seems to go R-L: 1&2 Elgin Villas, Haggs View, Mina Ville, Fern Dean, Largo Villa then 7&8 Elgin Villas. So does it make sense that Elgin Cottage and the house to the left are 1&2 Elgin Villas and the next unnammed semi-detached after the named villas to the left is what was nos. 7&8 Elgin Villas? Or is one semi-detached building no. 7 & the next semi-deatched house is no.8? It seems Elgin Villas was renamed "1331 and above" Pollokshaws Road - see "A Guide to Glasgow Addresses" Pt2, 1826 - 1950 by Susan Miller, so this kinda fits...

Just two problems, or bits I'm not quite understanding:
1. Why would Elgin Villas be spread out along the street (and where is 3, 4, 5 & 6? are they the "named villas" inbetween?)

2. I can't find the places named after this in 1881 on the same map: nos. 7&8 are followed in the 1881 by Ayrdale, Crookston Villa, Manse Villa, Laurelbank Place,[there is a Laurelbank cottage and a villa, but both a bit round the corner...] Carey Place, [Sweet Hope, Fowlerfield - seem to be in the street below - Shawhill Road] etc.


Any help much appreciated as am hoping I might be passing the area tomorrrow with camera! (Already have photos of Elgin Cottage and the house next door taken before I'd really sat down with the 1881...)

Best wishes
Lesley

m

[Jack]

Hi Lesley,
Oops, forgot about that. I'd had a look a while back; i've a possible answer..... somewhere!

I'll try and find it.... Jack

[Jack]

Hi Lesley,
Found it! Here's what i was working on a few months back - this was as far as i'd got.
But all very wrong...!
==
This was the enumerator's route for 1871 - seems Elgin Villas came under Shawlands.
--
"Starting at the Boundary of the Parish of Eastwood at McQuistan's Bridge on the New Kilmarnock Rd,
and including all within the following Boundaries.
West along the boundary of the Parish to the Main Rd leading from Glasgow to Barrhead at Crossmyloof,
then along the centre of said road to where the boundary of the Burgh of Pollokshaws crosses it,
thence along said boundary of said Burgh to McQuistan's Bridge"
"Part of the Parish of Eastwood"
--
The homes just prior to Elgin Villas on 1871 census were,
Salem Villa
Sylvan Cottage
Fowlerfield
Sweet Hope Cottage
Carey Place
Laurelbank
then, Elgin Villas (the last house / houses)
--
I'd make a guess that it was near the beginning of the now Barrhead Rd.?
==
But after looking at the map i'd go for Elgin Villas being the large double house at the "S" of Shawhill.
Jack

[LesleyB]

Jack
Thanks for your reply & for looking it up a while ago! Interesting order of houses in the 1871 and food for thought. Certainly the '81 seems to mention several houses in that street too so its difficult to get a feel for the exact sequence. But I forgot to mention;

Elgin Villas was renamed "1331 and above" Pollokshaws Road - see "A Guide to Glasgow Addresses" Pt2, 1826 - 1950 by Susan Miller

...and Elgin Cottage is still there (saw it yesteday!) and is numbered 1331 on the gatepost which would seem to place the villas in Pollockshaws Rd...

...and another thing I forgot to mention was that in the 71 it appears there were two families at 8 Elgin Villas, so I wonder if this adds weight to it being a semi-detached building? The odd thing is, the other family at no. 8 in 1871, surname DIETRICHIEN, appear to be living at Crookston villa in the 81, so did they move or did the house change name?, given that the order in 81 is: DIETRICHIEN at Crookston Villa, Thos. Ross & family at AyrDale and then WP Faulds & family at 8 Elgin Villas then Bryson family at no7 Elgin Villas.

Its just very difficult to tell where the enumerator was told to "turn the corner" given that he was about to hit the boundary...Guess I'll just have to print out the map of villas and take photos of all 3 likely buildings and hope to goodness there are some dates (which migth eliminate one or two buildings?) or at best there might be some remaining carved name on a gatepost on one of them!!
Thanks for spotting the other possible building.

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

OK, providing Mr Hogg did not move house....

1871 Alexander Hogg, born Largo Fife, wife Agnes & lots of little Hoggs inc. a son Agnew aged 1 are at 6 Elgin Villas
1881 Alexander Hogg, born Largo Fife, wife Agnes, son Agnew aged 11 (only child at home) are at Largo Villa.

So.. it might be reasonable to come to the conclusion that:
6 Elgin Villas = Largo Villa.
Therefore, nextdoor, the semi detached on Pollockshaws Rd surely must be 7 followed by 8?

Best wishes
Lesley

Oh grief... I'm answering my own questions again...

[CatrionaL]

OK, providing Mr Hogg did not move house....

Oh grief... I'm answering my own questions again...

Don't worry, Lesley, you're not the only one. I do it regularly. In fact it often happens that the effort required to formulate the question produces the answer.

Hope you get some good photos!

Catriona

[LesleyB]

Hi Jack and Catriona

it often happens that the effort required to formulate the question produces the answer.

I'd agree, I know exactly what you mean.

Well, interesting visit but not entirely conclusive.....
Unfortunately it seems NO dates are on either of the surviving buildings in Pollockshaws Road, and NO "giveaway" villas names are carved on gateposts. So it still could be either of them. Unfortunately, the building round the corner suggested by Jack, is no more - there is a modern building there, so I can't really make any judgements either way on that one. I feel no.8 was probably on Pollockshaws Road - the second of the two buildings which might have been no 8 is now Shawland Surgery...with a Dr. Margo F McNicol mentioned outside - how wierd is that??? Do you think they are trying to tell me something?

Thanks for your help & support.
best wishes
Lesley

[Jack]

Hi Lesley,
The double house i was meaning was on Shawhill Rd, not round the corner (i nearly said bend!)

On Shawhill Rd there is a lamp post (LP) and a No.106.7 near it. - is this outside 7 Elgin Villas?
A wee bit along the street going SW is a fire plug (FP) - is this outside 8 Elgin Villas?

Jack
ps, lucky you didn't leave it any later today - it's now snowing!

[LesleyB]

Hi Jack
I think I was looking at the building you meant, but have uploaded an annotiated map (!) at :
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-334

I said "round the corner" but its really round two corners! "Round the bend" seems more appropriate!

It was snowing when we left Glasgow in the early evening but no problems travelling back to the east coast. And now its just wet and horrid here today

Best wishes
Lesley

[AndrewP]

Hi Jack,

Does the Mitchell Library have large scale maps of Glasgow that show house numbers? (Edinburgh Central Library's Edinburgh Room has these for Edinburgh). A look at the different ages of maps may well show some with house names and some with house numbers. These maps are usually 1:2500 or similar and are on large sheets (about a square yard in old money).

If not, the the street directories may help, listing properties in sequence. I have solved some Edinburgh house name questions by consulting different ages of street directories.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson