Benquhat.....

[Bob Haining]

My Mother was born in Benquhat in 1904, I was wondering if anyone knows when
and why the spelling was changed to Benwhat?

[Andy]

Benwhat is the "Local" spelling Benquhat is the "Official" spelling on ordinance survey maps.

Another small town in North Aryshire is Skelmorlie, but a good few of the inhabitants pronounce and spell it Skermorlie.

Next door to Skelmorlie is Wemyss Bay. To locals Wemyss rhymes with THAMES the "Original" Wemyss in Fife rhymes with SEEMS.

[DavidWW]

My Mother was born in Benquhat in 1904, I was wondering if anyone knows when
and why the spelling was changed to Benwhat?

In old Scots there wasn't a "wh". Instead there was a "quh". The pronunciation is almost exactly the same, with the "quh" sound being a wee bit more at the back of the roof of the mouth rather than labial.

Thus "quhat", not "what" and so on, and the same in many place names.

While we're on the subject, let's cover yoghs and thorns

This from http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/cont ... ge=s4_3_15 (You'll need to go there to see the illustrations).

Yoghs

When reading sixteenth, seventeenth and eighteenth century documents written in Scotland expect to come across two letters which are now defunct, and which, confusingly, look like a z and a y. These are the archaic letters the ‘yogh’ and the ‘thorn’. Both were ‘done for’ by the standardization of letters by printers.

The yogh looked like a z with an extra loop descending below the line. It represented a guttural 'j' or 'gh' or 'yh' sound. An example appears in the word ‘sonze’ (meaning ‘excuse’ or 'delay').

It crops up in words such as ‘Tailzie’. Other words and place names contained the yogh, such as the place Lenzie (which used to be pronounced Linghie), and the surname Mackenzie. The form 'Zetland' (for 'Shetland') was originally an error, based on a misreading of the 'yogh''. The name was adopted as the official title of Zetland County Council from 1890-1975. However, many Shetlanders and scholars detested it, and the form 'Zetland' is now obsolete. The Concise Scots Dictionary devotes a page to words beginning with the yogh, between the sections devoted to words beginning with the 'y' and the 'z'.

Printers used a z instead of a yogh, and, over the years, pronunciation has changed to match the spelling. An exception is the name Menzies, which in Scotland is pronounced ‘Ming-is’ (the ‘z’ like the 'gh' in Genghis Khan).

The thorn, represented a 'th' sound, and was a common way of starting words, e.g. 'the' and 'that''. For further details see the tip on thorns.

And this from http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/cont ... ge=s4_3_16

Thorns

When reading sixteenth, seventeenth and eighteenth century documents written in Scotland expect to come across two letters which are now defunct, and which, confusingly, look like a 'z' and a 'y'. These are the archaic letters the ‘yogh’ and the ‘thorn’. Both were ‘done for’ by the standardization of letters by printers.

For details of the yogh see the tip on yoghs.

The thorn looks very like a 'y', and represented the sound 'th'. In figure1, the word 'the' starts with a thorn.

This is why today one can find signs saying things like ‘Ye Olde Coffee Shoppe’. This is a misrepresentation. People in the past did not say ‘ye’ they said ‘the’; it’s just that they had a separate letter, the thorn’, which denoted the sound ‘th’. When transcribing a thorn, write 'th'.

Short words beginning with a thorn were often abbreviated. For example the word in Figure 4 is 'that', written with a thorn and a superscript 't' (superscript to show hat something is missing - in this case the letter 'a'). It should be subscribed 'th[a]t'.

Davie

m

[Bob Haining]

Thanks to Andy and David for the replies.

Andy, I've seen the name spelled both ways, thought there might have been a spelling change for
some reason, but now (I think) I know, Benquhat is the legal way and Benwhat is the way the
locals spelled it.

David, once again you've given me much move information than I expected. It's not easy for a 1st
generation Canadian to understand our parents history when they passed away 30 years ago (and
I didn't pay much attention to what they were attempting to pass onto me). Mom left Benquhat
when she was 8 year old, so didn't have too much knowledge of her homeland.

Thank-you both for the info.

[jollybeggar0]

Just a brief note to provide some helpful publications on this subject. Robert Farrell (1983) produced: Benwhat & Corbie Craigs whilst Donald L Reid (2005) produced: YESTERDAY'S PATNA & THE LOST VILLAGES OF DOON VALLEY which also covers Benwhat, Craigmark, Beoch and Cairntable. Both books are available from the Baird Institute, Cumnock for research purposes, albeit the Lost Villages is totally sold out, however, there may be copies of Benwhat and Corbie Craigs still available locally via Baird Institute. With every good wish in your family research. I am always keen to receive any copies of accounts of the past by former villagers, passed down through families about places such as BENWHAT, CORBIE CRAIGS, NORTH BEOCH, KERSE, CAIRNTABLE, TONGUE ROW, LETHANHILL & CRAIGMARK. These are all now "Lost Villages," the last abandoned in the early 1950s, but having a record of memories of those who lived in them is very important for social history. Cheers.
Donald L Reid
E: donaldleesreidAThotmail.com
e-mail modified by moderator AT = @

[Bob Haining]

Hello Donald,

Thank-you for responding. I am lucky, I have a copies of two of your publications, “YESTERDAY'S PATNA & THE LOST VILLAGES OF DOON VALLEY”, and “Old Dalmellington, Patna & Waterside” and also have a copy of “Benwhat & Corbie Craigs”. These books give me a good indication of life in that area.

My Dad was born in Old Cumnock and again I’m fortunate to have a copy of Joe Lampard’s “Old Cumnock”.

Unfortunately, both of my parents died 31 years ago, long before I became interested in genealogy, oh how I wish they were alive today so I could hear their personal stories about their early childhood.

[jollybeggar0]

Hi Bob
You are absolutely right. There is always this gap in life when you have little or no interest in your own heritage. When the spark suddently bursts into a flame, very often it is too late to ask the many questions which parents and grandparents could have answered about the past. I am currently working on a couple of little books about the Doon Valley, but watching my grandson (2) on 5 days each week, I get little quality time to drive things foward the way I wish. However, I will get there eventually. My mother was raised at Craigmark and my father at Beoch, both now Lost Villages, but with a vibrant past. My grandmother Catherine Reid (Lees) simply loved life at Beoch and was very sad to move to Dalmellington in 1938, albeit the living conditions at Beoch would be regarded today as very primitive. The community spirit was great, though. My father, James Lees Reid and his brother Willie cycled from Beoch to Dalmellington on bicycles provided by the Education Authority! Quite amazing how life was lived not so many years ago. Kindest regards, Bob. Cheers.
Donald L Reid

[Jimmnm]

I Agee, you need to know more about where you came from. I was born in Benquhat in 1951 and my mum, dad and the family of 4 moved to South Yorkshire so as my dad could work in the pits. I was only 18 months old so I have very little knowledge about my place of birth. I have also worked in the steelworks and the pits for a great deal of my life. I am not sure if there is anyone out there who new my mum and dad. Helen McGreevy married my dad James McGuckin (they have both passed away many years ago , so now that I am interested on my past, I have no one to ask.

Any reply would be appreciated

Thanks.
Jim

[Russell]

Hi Jim and a very warm welcome to
You have not given us any guidance on what information you would like ! Is it local history ? or family history ? We are delighted to help with either - or both !!
How far have you gone with your family links e.g. names and dates so we have some ideas where to start.
The village name crops up in my wife's family line too. Her Reids and linked families were involved in mining but I couldn't see a link with your parents names. Ayrshire had many Reid families so it can be difficult sorting them out.
Hope to start looking for some of your answers soon.

Russell

[Jimmnm]

Hello Russell,
Thanks for your response, I am totally new to this and I will have feel my way around on how to acquire information about the village of Benquhat. I will get in to the geneology a little later on.
My mother was a very reserved and reading on some items I have come across I can understand why, living in Benquhat.
I remember her telling me that there was no need to lock your door and the children could play outside without any worries, which can't happen nowadays, which I find very sad indeed. My dad worked hard all of his life in the pits, he retired at 62 years of age (my age now) they brought up 5 of us kids to the best of their ability. They instilled good family values in us and was always kind and polite to others, which I assume stems from where they lived. It seems a totally different world then as to what it is now.

Jim.