Baptiste, Charles Tobias - From Tobago to Glasgow

[blueladybird]

Yes thanks, thats the article I noticed, must learn how to click and paste !

[blueladybird]

Joette, it seems he had one black and one white parent hence the skin colour.

[joette]

At this time though most Carribbeans would have been part of a melting pot & unlikely that Charles(sen) would be 100% black.
I know that some records of the Islands are available on the IGI or at LDS family history centres.
I would be interested in finding out his history-I would be very happy to have a look see at the FHC in Hyde Park -they have lots of records from the Carribbean.

[Steve Bannister]

Wow, I can't beleive all of these very helpful replies. Thank you all very,very much.

I have been told that there probably wouldn't have been too much of a scandal in the 1870's when Charles Baptiste Snr arrived from Tobago, as Glasgow was a main shipping port with many links to the West Indies there would have been people coming ang going from all parts of the world. It was a white woman that he married, and then their son, Alexander Hill, also married a white woman, my grandmother Nanny Och-Aye, as we used to call her. As I said, Alexander and my grandmother Catherine Campbell Bradford had two children; Charles Baptiste, the actor, and Jemima Young Baptiste, my Nan. Charles was darker than my nan but still quite 'watered down'. I fact I have only just recently found out about the whole Tobago thing, I just thought my Nan just had an olive-complexion, although my mum did think there may have been an Indian link as they did move out there for a while, but that was just for work. And my childhood memories of visiting the family in Glasgow are now quite vauge although I do remember there were a lot of daisies in Aunt Queenies front garden in Lobnitz Avenue, as this is were all the kids sat and made daisy chains while the grown-ups chatted!

I never knew that Charles met with any prejudice, he appeared in over 70 plays was a theatre manager as well as some TV appearances. If he did suffer prejudice then that must have been hard enough, the fact that he was also gay must have made it even harder. Acting in over 70 plays, theatre manager, looking after his 3 spinster aunts and finding time to join the RAF makes it look like he had quite a full life. Charles died in 1981 of Rheumatic Valvular Disease of the Heart, aged 58. My nan, his sister, was never quite the same. She was always a bit of an entertainer herself and always the centre of attraction in the room, she led a much quieter life after Charles died and, always very modest, didn't speak much about her past which I am finding out now, was also quite colourful.

Which brings me back to my original post. Does anybody know Jemima Young Baptiste? She used a stage name of 'Jimmy Young', this was well before the other Jimmy Young of course. She had another nome of 'Takia the Hula Hula Girl' for her Hawaiian act. It was this Hawaiian act that took her to the Glasgow Empire and then on to a summer season in Blackpool with Felix Mendelssohn and his Hawaiian Serenaders. He did release a few albums but her name doesn't appear on them. She also made a demo record of 'Summertime (and the living is easy)', was a Clydeside factory worker as well as driving ambulances during the war. It was a standing joke, as when the other Jimmy Young became famous and was touring, he had posters everywhere. People used to tell that they'd put the wrong pictures on the posters, because everybody knew my nan as Jimmy Young, not this new guy. The Glasgow Empire is long gone but there is a guy who runs a fansite. He is asking around for me as well as putting an advert into the next newsletter.

So, I am desperate to find out more about her. My searches have turned up nothing so far, but I will try the same sites that you have all given me for Charles, she may be listed somewhere in those. But, as you guys seem to know much more about all of this than I do, you are obviously the people to ask. Does anybody have any ideas of where I can look?

Kindest regards,

Steve

[Steve Bannister]

Hi there,

Firstly Joette,

Thanks for your kind comments. Charles' father, Alexander, was born in Glasgow as well as Charles. It was Charles' Grandfather, Charles Tobis Baptiste Snr, who came over from Tobago. I have a listing of him as working as a ship's cook to earn his passage over from Tobago to Glasgow. His marriage certificate and the census' all list Charles Tobias Baptiste Snr as being from Tobago. I do have somebody researching in Tobago for me but the officials over there are notoriously slow.

As for Charles Jnr, the actor, he does look Italian, doesn't he! In fact as well as appearing in 'High Living', he also appeared in 'Garnock Way', which was the forerunner to 'Take The High Road'. Charles appeared as the comic character, Luigi, the Italian Cafe owner. So somebody else must of thought he looked Italian as well!

blueladybird and LesleyB,

Thank you very much for the link and what an amazing find to get a photo of him as well. which is, at the moment, the best photo I have of him. I have one when he was about 5 years old, but a very grainy sepia picture.

Alan,

Thanks for the images you sent, they are excellent and a great piece of research. Well done. I have also sent you a 'thank you' by pm.

Well, no rest for the wicked...back to the research!

Steve

[Currie]

Back again Steve,

I couldn’t find anything specific to Jemima so I can only offer some odds and ends.

There’s a Felix biography on this page
http://www.memorylane.org.uk/previous_a ... Medelssohn

A picture of the Band
http://www.jamd.com/image/g/3254339

A very short clip of the band in action (from Desmond Campbell Archive Collection)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0bEM-Pv ... re=related

British Pathe has some newsreel material, looks expensive for quality copies but at least there’s supposed to be a free preview.
http://www.britishpathe.com/product_dis ... serenaders

(When I just checked the above link there was a no result but it gave results before?)

Hope that’s interesting,
Alan

[keewik]

I wish I could offer some constructive suggestions here, but all I can contribute is that I do actually remember Charles Baptiste, the actor. I think I used to see him in the Citizen's Theatre when I was at school, and I'm almost certain I saw him play the Ghost in 'Hamlet' in a production where Hamlet was played by John Cairney. This might have been about 1960/61. I always thought he was of French origin because of the name. I seem to remember him having a very powerful voice on-stage.

[Steve Bannister]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for finding those links, it was very good of you. I'll stsrt looking through them tonight.



Hi Keewik,

Charles was in Hamlet at the Citizen's in 1960. That's some memory you have there! I'm not sure what part he played but you may be right. Thanks for your kind comments.

Steve.

[dhart]

I remember "Uncle Charlie" as he was my Papa's cousin. My Papa was John Hannan, known as Jackie, who married my Gran, Mary.

Charlie used to come for Christmas dinner in the 70s to my Mum and Dad's house in Paisley along with Aunt Queenie ( who was a real character) and Mrs Hannan who was I believe Queenie's sister and possibly the other Aunt you referred to. Mrs Hannan was very religious and I remember playing Christmas Carols to her on my wee bontempi organ when I was around 10 years old. (i think I was delighted to have an audience!)

I remember visiting Uncle Charlie and Aunt Queenie at their home in Renfrew with my Gran around 1980 and Charlie telling me about the pantomime at one of the Glasgow theatres (Pavilion perhaps but not sure) where he was, I think, Manager. A horse which was part of the final marriage scene was rather badly behaved and had even stumbled into the orchestra pit during one of the matinee performances.

I don't remember this but my parents mentioned that Charlie once brought a friend along to xmas dinner, someone who read the news on tv at that time apparently and now looking back, was possibly his partner at that time.

These are childhood memories so probably not much real use to you. My Papa was a fantastic guy, patient and wise, who always had time for a game of snooker or whatever my brother and I were into at the time. He was my Gran's second husband and I understand Charlie was a witness at their wedding.

Another memory is that Charlie had a business interest in a pub in Edinburgh, The Laughing Duck. My Gran and Papa had visited and had lunch there with Charlie. It was only later when I became a student in Edinburgh that I learned it was a gay bar. I wondered if they knew and didn't care or if it just didn't occur to them.

I'll have a look through my parents old photos and see if I can find any of Uncle Charlie. It's been a real pleasure to learn more about this remarkable person so thanks for your efforts.

Derek Hart

[SarahND]

Hello Derek and
It's wonderful that you can add some personal memories to this fascinating topic! I see that Steve hasn't been on the forum for over two years, so if he doesn't answer you might try sending him a pm. If he still has the same email address he should get a notification.

All the best,
Sarah