Getting ready?

If you are having difficulty with the ScotlandsPeople site, or have answers

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DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:55 am

ninatoo wrote:Well David, it has happened to me before at "Bute Sons and Daughters". Apparently they had some hackers from this end of the world, and to stop them they banned them, accidentally cutting the rest of Australia off. So I know it IS possible to do, even by accident. Bute sons and daughters had to go to their ISP people to fix it.

I think something has been accidentally altered in the upgrade, and armed with all that info I gave to sporran, hopefully they can fix it.
Most interesting, - I didn't know that that was possible.

If it's the case with SP there'll be some red faces about :!:

David

ninatoo
Posts: 1231
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:42 am
Location: Australia

Post by ninatoo » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:05 pm

I never thought it possible either David, and if it hadn't happened to me before I would not have believed it. But there you are. Maybe they can contact Bute Sons and Daughters to find out how to fix it :wink: . And I have done my homework, I have asked every southern Australian I know to try to access the site and they all get timed out like me.

Bad timing for it I must say. :cry:
Researching: Easton ( Renfrewshire, Dunbarton and Glasgow), Corr (Londonderry and Glasgow), Carson (Co. Down, Irvine, Ayrshire and Glasgow), Logan (Londonderry and Glasgow)

ninatoo
Posts: 1231
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:42 am
Location: Australia

Post by ninatoo » Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:29 pm

Hi all,

Well, after a few days of frustration I am still not able to log into SP but apparently it IS due to cables being damaged in the earthquakes in Taiwan. Oh the BOTHER I had getting my ISP to admit the problem was theirs. :evil:

They can't tell me when we will be able to connect again, but fingers crossed it won't be too long.

A BIG HUGE thank you to SPORRAN =D> =D> =D> for helping me all through the process!

Nina
Researching: Easton ( Renfrewshire, Dunbarton and Glasgow), Corr (Londonderry and Glasgow), Carson (Co. Down, Irvine, Ayrshire and Glasgow), Logan (Londonderry and Glasgow)

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:38 pm

ninatoo wrote:Hi all,

Well, after a few days of frustration I am still not able to log into SP but apparently it IS due to cables being damaged in the earthquakes in Taiwan. Oh the BOTHER I had getting my ISP to admit the problem was theirs. :evil:

They can't tell me when we will be able to connect again, but fingers crossed it won't be too long.

A BIG HUGE thank you to SPORRAN =D> =D> =D> for helping me all through the process!

Nina
But why just SA and Vic, and not also NSW and QLD ?

David

sporran
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:40 pm
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK

Re: connections in Australia

Post by sporran » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:02 pm

Hello David,


it is only fair to acknowledge the help from Richard Callison of SP in this saga, and by yesterday evening we were almost certain that the problem lay in Australia. All our tests showed that Ninatoo was unable to get Domain Name Service (DNS) requests converted to IP addresses.

Optus did not cover themselves in glory. Ninatoo's first contact was to an idiot who gave a load of bull. The second one was more helpful but concluded that the problem was definitely with SP. The third was much the same as the second, stating that he could connect to SP. It was only when Ninatoo begged them to look further into her DNS failures that (after 5 minutes on hold) someone admitted that the problem was theirs.

I do not know enough about WANs or the topology of Optus's network, but it appears that DNS requests from her area get routed through to Singtel in Singapore, and some of their cables and routers were damaged in the earthquake. Presumably, other areas of Australia connected to Optus get routed in a different way for DNS resolution.


Regards,

John

dstew
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:22 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Post by dstew » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:50 pm

I too are having trouble logging on to Scotlands people.I am in Melbourne Victoria, i too have optus but logged on on saturday for a look but had problems yesterday 1st jan and also today 2nd i just hope it is just one of those things that works itself out

Dstew Darren

ninatoo
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:42 am
Location: Australia

Post by ninatoo » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:13 am

dstew,

Please report the fault to Optus. They may not believe you, (because they don't like to admit they don't KNOW what the problem is) as Sporran has mentioned above, but persist. The fault IS the DNS server so ask them to put a 'ticket' on it for the technicians to be aware of a problem. In fact, ask them to check if others have complained about this particular problem; the answer had better be yes!!!

The more people who contact them the quicker it will be fixed. I would even suggest sending an email to all of your Aussie friends, ( I did this) asking them if they have Optus and can they connect to SP. If they can't ask THEM to contact Optus as well. I actually asked everyone try, Optus customer or not, and the vast majority of problems were from Optus. Hopefully those people have reported their difficulty too.

Yes Sporran how you explained the cabling system is basically how it was explained to me. He did go on about some connections being diverted through the USA, but not SP. YET. :D

And it was remiss of me not to mention Richard's efforts in all of this. Though I never actually had personal contact with him, I know he was conversing with Sporran and trying to get things sorted ON HIS HOLIDAYS. I truly appreciated his efforts too!

In the meantime...no connection this morning, but the day is young!

Nina
Researching: Easton ( Renfrewshire, Dunbarton and Glasgow), Corr (Londonderry and Glasgow), Carson (Co. Down, Irvine, Ayrshire and Glasgow), Logan (Londonderry and Glasgow)

StewL
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:59 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Post by StewL » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:17 am

Hello Nina

Sorry to hear about your ISP problems, at least they finally admitted it was their problem, not usual for ISP's :lol:

Just out of interest I connect to SP this morning to do a test run. I hadn't been on for a few days (my credits have expired, and I am resisting temptation to get some more :lol: ).

From over here in the west I had not troubles connecting, I am with Telstra. So no idea where or how they route their overseas connections.

I must admit I am being a bit unfair to ISP's. Not long ago when I was trying to find the cause of my slow connections the tech's spent a considerable amount of time testing to find out the source of my problems.
Stewie

Searching for: Anderson, Balks, Barton, Courtney, Davidson, Downie, Dunlop, Edward, Flucker, Galloway, Graham, Guthrie, Higgins, Laurie, Mathieson, McLean, McLuckie, Miln, Nielson, Payne, Phillips, Porterfield, Stewart, Watson

ninatoo
Posts: 1231
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:42 am
Location: Australia

Post by ninatoo » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:40 am

Hi StewL,

I asked them in one of the calls about that, and they said Telstra uses a different DNS server. Now that was either the first or the second techie I spoke to, and neither one of them helped in the end, so I don't know how true it is. You would think that ultimately they would share the same fibreoptic cable going to Scotland, but then what do we know? :lol:

I just conducted a little experiment to see just how many Scottish sites I could not get onto, and so I googled Scotland. I went through the first three pages of searches and I could not connect to about 3/10 per page, amongst failures were scotsman.com scotland.gov.uk scottishfa.co.uk and rampantscotland.com . Of course I have no idea if those addresses are still current anyway, but it seems all is still not well in the cables and the problem is NOT just affecting SP.

I am going to throw a reconnection party when this is over!

Nina
Researching: Easton ( Renfrewshire, Dunbarton and Glasgow), Corr (Londonderry and Glasgow), Carson (Co. Down, Irvine, Ayrshire and Glasgow), Logan (Londonderry and Glasgow)

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:41 am

ninatoo wrote:Hi StewL,

I asked them in one of the calls about that, and they said Telstra uses a different DNS server. Now that was either the first or the second techie I spoke to, and neither one of them helped in the end, so I don't know how true it is. You would think that ultimately they would share the same fibreoptic cable going to Scotland, but then what do we know? :lol:
It all depends where the major fibreoptic "exchange" (exactly analgous to a telephone exchange) is in that part of the word. Even then, in one major cable, there are 100s, sometimes 1,000s of "channels" . It sounds like the problem here lies more in the associated computer control equipment, as well as the link into the exchange.

What's particularly annoying here, is that there is a massive amount of redundancy built into the worldwide fibreoptic network, and a tremendous amount of spare capacity due to over-investment in the cabling and the exchanges all around the world some 6 or 7 years ago. (The company that I used to work for was the major contractor in the world for the cables and exchanges, amongst other activities.)

In this case, assuming that they actually recognised the problem it should have been very straightforward for Optus to reroute their traffic. But that would probably have cost them a bit extra, and take a bit of techie effort, so looks like they decided to bury their corporate heads in the sand.

(See http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/cables.html for the top-level world network, - you'll have to page down a bit, - the main link out of Vic and SA appears to be via the Pacific, but this map probably won't show an internal Australian Telstra network.....

See also http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol5/issue4/dodge_kitchin.htm for the so-called backbone network.

And you'll like http://www.mmv.vic.gov.au/NewsMultiMill ... 28June2006 !!

Note that the fibreoptic cables and exchanges are largely owned by third parties who provide a service to anyone.)

ninatoo wrote:I just conducted a little experiment to see just how many Scottish sites I could not get onto, and so I googled Scotland. I went through the first three pages of searches and I could not connect to about 3/10 per page, amongst failures were scotsman.com scotland.gov.uk scottishfa.co.uk and rampantscotland.com . Of course I have no idea if those addresses are still current anyway, but it seems all is still not well in the cables and the problem is NOT just affecting SP.
All four "failed" addresses are current, just don't try the Scottish FA one unless you have to, as it insists on taking a minute or more, even via broadband, to load its shopping page.

It would be interesting if you were to repeat the effort and see if the same addresses are consistently problematic, or whether the failures are random (altho' that's demonstrably not the case with SP!). In theory, a company the size of Optus should have several options for fibreoptic links out of Australia, and not be limited to Singapore.
ninatoo wrote:I am going to throw a reconnection party when this is over!

Nina
Now there's a new type of party :!: [woohoo]

David

Later edit, - Telstra changed to Optus.
Last edited by DavidWW on Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:07 am, edited 3 times in total.