Family on 1841 Census but cannot find on SP

judipete · Post by **judipete** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:28 pm

Can anyone help? I am searching for details of the family of my GG grandmother Elizabeth Goodman and a date of birth, as I only have an approximate year of 1819. In 1837 her address is 48 New Street Calton before she sailed for South Australia, having married James Quinn - both 18 years.

On the 1841 census (Ancestry UK website) Elizabeth's parents James and Elizabeth Goodman with her two brothers James and Thomas are living in Barony St Lukes Lanarkshire. James (born abt 1822) and Thomas (born 1826) were born in Lanarkshire, so I am assuming Elizabeth may well have been born there as well, though her parents were born in Ireland.

I have searched Scotlands People site for this Goodman family with nil results.

Can anyone throw light on the way forward for me to find these birth records? Thanks
Judith

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:54 pm

Hi Judith

Glad you found us here at TalkingScot

We like puzzles and problems here - but for a first one you have a cracker.

Because the events are pre-1855 they would be part of the Old Parochial Records (OPR) which ought to come up on scotlandspeople. Since they don't my next question was 'how did they spell their surname ?). Still no joy. A quick check on IGI brought up no matches either.
My thought now is that they were Roman Catholic and their records are not available on either of the above sites since they were mostly records from the Established Church of Scotland.
It is possible they took place in Ireland as there was a surprising degree of movement between Scotland and the Emerald Isle. This possibility creates further problems as Irish records are much less accessible on-line than their Scots counterparts.
Any other information you have would be helpful.

Russell

judipete · Post by **judipete** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:05 am

Hi Russell,
Thanks so much for responding. Elizabeth Quinn (nee Goodman) on Australian certificates always spelt her name as Goodman. I note that the Ancestry UK transcript of the 1841 census also spells the name as Goodman.

We know the Quinn family were Protestant living in Newry in County Down. The Quinns were nailers or nail smiths in Newry. The Goodmans we know nothing about, except that in Australia, the first children of James Quinn and Elizabeth Goodman were baptised in the first Anglican church in Adelaide. So I assume that Elizabeth Goodman was Protestant as well.

From the 1841 census transcript, I can see that Elizabeth Goodman's parents were born in Ireland.

On the 1861 Census there is a James Goodman at 47 New Street Calton 10 years old than he should be (according to Census transcript of 1841) Occupation fish dealer.

This may or may not be Elizabeth Goodman's father. We know from the ship's register in 1837 that brought them to Australia, that the address given was 48 New Street Calton.

In 1992, our family had a search done by the Ulster Historical Foundation, which gave us information on the Quinns, but that search found nothing on the Goodman family.
I appreciate your interest and help.
Judith

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:16 am

FREECEN also has them indexed as Goodman in 1841 and I found them easily enough on SP.

In 1851 James and Eliza(beth) are still living at 47 New Street indexed as Goodwin.

Regards,
Annette

judipete · Post by **judipete** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Thanks Annette. I have found a Goodman family on 1851 census on SP site living at 47 New Street. The name is written as Goodman, though the transcribers could believe the name to be Goodwin.

As the address on the ship's register was 48 New Street, I am wondering if I can rely on 47 being the Goodman family of Elizabeth Goodman who came to South Australia? Could one say that the street numbering was haphazard in Calton in 1837?

I still cannot access any birth records for this family on the SP site. Thanks again
Judith

Post by **SarahND** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:30 pm

Hi Judith and welcome

Have you tracked down Thomas and James in the 1851, or did they emigrate also?

There is a Thomas at 236 Cowgate, Edinburgh Iron Church, who is an "Hour Dresser Master Empbying 1 Apprentice". He was born in Glasgow. But, the only plausible Jameses I can find were born in Ireland. Could they have come over between James and Thomas and actually James and Elizabeth were born in Ireland?
It wouldn't be the first time that the wrong box was ticked on the 1841 census... Just wondering if we could find more info on Elizabeth by following her brothers.

Also, in 1851 there is a "Granddaughter" Eliza Publes (probably Peebles?) age 6 born in Glasgow. Do you know whose child she is?

All the best,
Sarah

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:37 pm

SarahND wrote:Hi Judith and welcome
Have you tracked down Thomas and James in the 1851, or did they emigrate also?

There is a Thomas at 236 Cowgate, Edinburgh Iron Church, who is an "Hour Dresser Master Empbying 1 Apprentice". He was born in Glasgow. But, the only plausible Jameses I can find were born in Ireland. Could they have come over between James and Thomas and actually James and Elizabeth were born in Ireland?
It wouldn't be the first time that the wrong box was ticked on the 1841 census... Just wondering if we could find more info on Elizabeth by following her brothers.

Also, in 1851 there is a "Granddaughter" Eliza Publes (probably Peebles?) age 6 born in Glasgow. Do you know whose child she is?
All the best,
Sarah

I hadn't even noticed that Sarah but I had already found a marriage of Helen Goodman.

HELEN GOODMAN
Female

Marriages:
Spouse: WILLIAM PEEBLES Family
Marriage: 25 SEP 1836 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

Had a quick look for them in 1841 but couldn't find them.

Regards,
Annette

Post by **SarahND** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:08 pm

This looks like them in 1841:

Kingfield Row, Glasgow Chalmers, Lanarkshire
Wm Pebbles, 25, born Ireland, Shoemaker
Helen Pebbles, 25, born Ireland
Wm Pebbles, 3 Mo, born Lanarkshire

Regards,
Sarah

Post by **SarahND** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:35 pm

Did Helen die and William has left wee Eliza with the grandparents while he works in England... with a new wife?:

1851
106 Darlington Blds, St Jude, Manchester, Lancashire
William Peebles, Head, Mar, 33, Shoemaker, born Scotland
Mary do, wife, Mar, 30, House Keeper, born Derby Belfoer
Samuel Jackson, Lodger, Unm, 50, Labourer, born do do

No sign of wee William-- perhaps he didn't survive

The only Helen in 1851 appears to be someone else, as she is also there in 1841.

Hope Judith doesn't mind us going off on a Peebles tangent

But you never know what might shed light on the family.

Regards,
Sarah

Post by **SarahND** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:43 pm

He's back in Scotland again in 1861:

20 Cross Gibson St, Calton, Glasgow St James
Alexr McElwee, 44, Head, born Ireland, Shoemaker
Margt McElwee, 46, Wife, born Ireland
Mary McElwee, 24, Daughter, born Glasgow, Lanark, Cotton Weaver
Margt McElwee, 17, Daughter, born Glasgow, Lanark, Cotton Weaver
Alexr McElwee, 12, Son, born Glasgow, Lanark
William Peebles, 42, Lodger, born Ireland, Shoemaker

Not that this helps Judith much-- sorry! Just checking all avenues...

TalkingScot.com

Family on 1841 Census but cannot find on SP

Family on 1841 Census but cannot find on SP

Goodman family on 1841 Census, but cannot find them on SP

Goodman family birth and marriage records on SP