Help with Army photo please.

[crayspond]

I wonder if anyone can help with this photo of my father Thomas Beveridge. He died in 1996 and although he talked about his time in the army when we were young - it didn't sink in at the time.
He was in The Kings Own Scottish Borderers stationed in Palestine from 1946 - 1948 - I do remember him talking about the bombing of the King David Hotel and that he was meant to be around that area at the time but for some reason he didn't go - lucky for him.
As you can see from his writing on the photo, there are two German prisoners either side of him and his mate on the outside.On the back of the photo it says Amartya POW Camp 21/8/46. I have tried to find information relating to this Camp but have been unsuccessful.
I thought i would try TS and see if anyone on the Armed Forces can help.

http://tinypic.com/r/313hfr8/6

Regards
Ailsa

[SandySandilands]

Hello Ailsa

Did you know the Kings Own Scottish Borderers have their own website and forums: http://www.kosb.co.uk/apps/forums/ ?

I thought the above link might be handy

Sandy

[crayspond]

Hi Sandy,

Thanks for the link - i have been on the site - it only contains the following for their time in Palestine.

Post-war Army reductions led to the disbandment of the 6th and 7th Battalions in 1946, and the 2nd Battalion in 1947. Between 1945 and 1947 the 1st Battalion was on internal security duties in Palestine.

To find out any info from them there is a minimum charge of £20 to cover administration. I surely must be able to find out about this POW camp through other means. I will post if i find out anything.

Ailsa

[Currie]

Hello Ailsa,

What’s he written on the photograph? Mate, Jerry, Me, Jerry? They don’t look like German POW's, they look like active soldiers, they are wearing the same webbing belts as the others, and their footwear looks military, their headgear is different to the two obvious Scots, and they are the only ones who are carrying what could be described as a weapon, which look almost identical enough to be standard issue. Maybe it’s for crowd control use by police?

Would there still be German Prisoners of War in Palestine 15 months after the end of European hostilities, working for the British in policing Jewish immigration and associated violence. I suspect not. Maybe Jerry means something else.

There’s a listing of British units in Palestine on this page. http://britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/units.html All it says about the K.O.S.B. is “1st Battalion The King's Own Scottish Borderers 1KOSB arrived in Palestine from Germany in 1946 under the command of Lt Col WFR Turner DSO where they were involved in operations until their departure for Edinburgh in 1948.”

If you search the page using your browser, for the word ‘camp’ you’ll find a great number , with strange names and even numbers. Most of them were to do with controlling the huge influx of illegal immigration and the civilian conflict this created. The only places I can see there ending with ‘ya’ are Habbaniya (Habaniya), Nethanya (Netanya), and El Jiya. You would think there would have to be a place in Palestine by that name, or at least a place that sounds the same. If we can find the place on a map maybe it will be near one of those mentioned.

Nobody seemed to appreciate the British Army’s presence there and their soldiers were being shot and blown up, including the K.O.S.B., on a regular basis. There are reports of this in the newspapers that I could round up if you wish. I think I saw one about many K.O.S.B. being killed when a train was blown up.

Here’s what looks like a very interesting site about British Forces in Palestine. It may help to satisfy your curiosity about what it was like there for a soldier. But for the K.O.S.B. the only mention appears to be of a couple of casualties. http://www.britishforcesinpalestine.org/index.html

All the best,
Alan

I should add that some of the camps would have been used to hold prisoners taken during the war with the various anti-British groups in Palestine, but most camps would have been for the internment of illegal immigrants.

Alan

[crayspond]

Hi Alan,

I have posted another link to the photo i hope is a bit better than the last one, it is possible to zoom in.

http://tinypic.com/r/33aw3lc/6

In this one you can see that it is not weapons they are holding but like a type of walking stick. It does say mate (his mate i assume as their hats would suggest the same regiment) and the other two jerrys (if they are POWs they do look very relaxed). My dad was 22 in this photo and has written on the back Amarya (the 't' was inserted later) POW camp - from Tommy to my sister Annie. I wonder why he got this specific photo taken?
I agree that they were not really appreciated and i would imagine my dad didn't know what he was letting himself in for. As it was National Service they had to choose the Army or Navy - he choose the Army. One good thing came out of it. He had a very bad stammer when he was young and he said the army knocked it out of him!
I appreciate you looking at the page - i found about the same as you. It may remain a mystery but still a good picture to have.
I will have a look at the website for british forces in Palestine. Thaks again.

Ailsa

[Currie]

Back again Ailsa, and maybe getting somewhere with the POW thing.

In November, 1947, there were still large numbers of German POW’s in camps in Palestine awaiting repatriation. http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/comm ... patriation

If the British were using some of those prisoners to help guard, or have some sort of control or authority over the greater mass of prisoners, then that may explain the uniform and the sticks and the familiarity with the two Scots.

In this document about the evacuation of British women and children from the Middle East to the UK in 1947 there’s information about German POW’s being used as camp guards. This was at Maadi camp in Egypt.
http://www.landofbrokenpromises.co.uk/p ... ation.html

The ‘Amarya’ spelling may be more promising; I’ll have another look later.

All the best,
Alan

[crayspond]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for that info - i thought you might come up with something - it proves at least that there were Germans still in the area at the time my father was there. It may be that the photograph was taken in Egypt.
I have read about police and soldiers being verbally abused and spat on while in Palestine - being mistaken for Germans. Maybe there was some truth in the stories after all.

Ailsa

[crayspond]

Hi Alan,

I did a bit of searching today and came up with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_El_Amiriya
I have a vague memory of my dad saying he was also in Egypt - maybe he got the spelling wrong? this could have been where he went first before he went to Palestine. I know he was definitely in Palestine as i have his medal.
I will try and spend a bit more time looking for a POW camp there later.

Regards
Ailsa

[Currie]

Hello Ailsa,

Amiriya looks like an interesting possibility, at least it sounds about right.

I found a book that has a section on Palestine place names. There are some places there that look a bit similar, but I’m not sure if it’s much help at all. http://archive.org/stream/palestineunde ... 8/mode/2up
There’s an index at the back http://archive.org/stream/palestineunde ... 9/mode/1up

I couldn’t find a list of POW camps, except what’s in this pdf document, and that’s Egypt again, but it is interesting reading.
http://www.egyptstudycircle.org.uk/Arti ... 33p241.pdf

Have you thought about getting your father’s service records from Ministry of Defence, maybe it’s mentioned there?

It's probably unlikely the K.O.S.B. were all together in the one place. There may have been detachments located elsewhere in the area.

All the best,
Alan

[Adam Brown]

George Macdonald Fraser's "General Danced at Dawn" series covers his time with the Gordons in Libya at this time and in one of the books he takes a train to Palestine and describes the security arrangements in place. He also mentions Afrika Korps prisoners too. He mentions them wearing their shorts shorter than the British.

Given the Germans would have been PoW's for about five years in 1947 I'm sure they would have to be dressed in British uniform because their own uniforms would have worn out by then.

It is hard to make out their caps which don't look like regulation British headgear but descriptions of the Afrika Korps peaked field cap mention it turning almost white in the sun.

Not conclusive proof the two men in the photographs are German I know but it may help with the jigsaw.

Adam