WW1 records from SP.....

[AndrewP]

I think this is the man above on the Scottish National War Memorial website.

http://www.snwm.org/website/frames.html

Surname - FRASER
Firstname - Robert
Service Number - 307
Date Death - 09/05/1915
Decoration
Place of birth - Kineff Kincardineshire
Other - 5th Bn.
SNWM roll - THE BLACK WATCH (ROYAL HIGHLANDERS)
Rank - L/Cpl
Theatre of death - F.& F.

Tracey, should the 3007 that you quote be 307?

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[AndrewP]

The others that Tracey gave are:

Surname - FRASER
Firstname- Robert
Service Number - S/5528
Date Death - 01/11/1916
Decoration
Place of birth - New Monkland Lanarkshire
Other - 8/10th Bn.
SNWM roll - THE GORDON HIGHLANDERS
Rank - Cpl
Theatre of death - F.& F.

and

S/23948 is shown as John Ross.
The only Robert Alexander Fraser on the SNWM website was RAF.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[AndrewP]

Hi Joan,

How about this one? (a Fifer)

Surname - FRASER
Firstname - Robert M
Service Number - 22902
Date Death - 18/04/1916
Decoration
Place of birth - Kirkcaldy Fife
Other - 1st Bn.
SNWM roll - THE HIGHLAND LIGHT INFANTRY
Rank - Pte
Theatre of death - Mesopotamia.

and the same guy on the CWGC website:

Name: FRASER, ROBERT M.
Initials: R M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment: Highland Light Infantry
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Date of Death: 18/04/1916
Service No: 22902
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 35 and 64.
Cemetery: BASRA MEMORIAL

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[Tracey]

No, but i cant remember off hand why i think this is right

[DavidWW]

The 5th Battalion Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) started off WWI as the Angus and Dundee Territorial Bn, but as the war progressed and casualites mounted these area links became less and less relevent.

The 1/5th were among the first Scottish territorials to be sent to France in Nov 1914, taking part in the Battle of Aubers Ridge in May 1915, sustaining several hundred casualties.

For someone from Kincardineshire it's likely that they were in "C" (Montrose) Company.

There's an excellent regimental website for the 1/5th, later combined with the 1/4th (City of Dundee) Bn at http://vzone.virgin.net/ian.edwards2/bwmain.htm

David

[Tracey]

The Robert Fraser of the 5th Royal Highlanders on CWWG died............

Cemetery: PLOEGSTEERT MEMORIAL
Country: Belgium
Locality: Comines-Warneton, Hainaut

[DavidWW]

The Robert Fraser of the 5th Royal Highlanders on CWWG died............

Cemetery: PLOEGSTEERT MEMORIAL
Country: Belgium
Locality: Comines-Warneton, Hainaut

That's the same memorial where my great-uncle is commemmorated which means that he was KIA, body never recovered, with the 9th May meaning that he was lost in the very same action - Aubers Ridge - as Serjeant Joseph Young WEBSTER who may well have been his NCO in "C" Company !!

See http://www.harboro.ndirect.co.uk/ploegste.htm for a photo; the inside walls are covered with the names of over 11,000 men who were lost in action, bodies never found.

I've been there to pay my respects.

David

link no longer works

[Tracey]

Well, well !............ which proves you never know who your going to bump into on here

[DavidWW]

Thanks everyone

I had looked at the NA but wthout his regiment I was stumped. From what I have (having spend a fortune on SP) the Robert Fraser I have found on SP must be him. I know he was born in 1870 in Fife and dead by 1917. I guess I'll have to stump up to get his regiment. Was going to go to Kew tomorrow but will wait til SP deliver the goods.


Thanks again for your help
Joan

Joan

Meant to add yesterday that the main reason for someone of that age being involved at that stage in active service in WW1 is that he was already in the Reserve, which means that he had served a term, - probably 12 years, - 7 on active service, 5 in the Reserve prior to WWI.

In other words there could be some very interesting service reocrds for him before WWI, involving some very interesting places and campaigns ..............

The great-uncle I referred to earlier had 7 years active service with the Cameron Highlanders, - note that it wasn't necessarily the case that the reserve regiment matched the active service regiment. The former was almost purely dependent on the place of domicile. In my case, for reasons that haven't come down the family Joseph enlisted in the Camerons when they were recruiting at Perth, but went back to his home town of Montrose when he was discharged, marrying on the way a lassie from a parish close to the Camerons' base, and then serving his period in the Reserve with the "territorial" - hence the term , - regiment associated with Angus, The Black Watch.

Prior to major reforms in the mid 19th century, while Scottish regiments were generally associated mainly with particular areas, they recruited from all over Scoltand, and England, and Ireland! It was only following these reforms that the situation was formalised with recruiting being much more restricted to their regimental area, centred on the regimental HQ, Inverness for the Camerons and the Seaforths, Perth for the Black Watch, Glasgow for the HLI and the RSF but with latter mainly based at the Ayr HQ, North Lanarkshire (Hamilton) for the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles), Aberdeen for the Gordons, Stirling for the A&SH, Edinburgh for the Royal Scots, and the Borders for the KOSB.

That written it's necessary to understand the details of the Haldane reforms of 1881 which merged a number of previously separate regiments to form 2 battalion regiments in odrer to understand fully their historical area links, e.g. The Scottish Rifles (Cameronians), with their HQ in Hamilton were created from the 26th of Foot - The Cameronian Regiment, and the 90th of Foot - The Perthshire Volunteers Light Infantry. Most often one of the 2 battalions also continued the particular traditions of the previous regiment as well as those of the merged regiment.

Having gone this far, I might as well complete the picture in 1881......

The Royal Highlanders (Black Watch)
42nd of Foot The Royal Highland (The Black Watch)
and
73rd of Foot The Perthshire Regiment

The Highland Light Infantry (The City of Glasgow Regiment)
71st HLI
and
74th The Highland Regiment

The Seaforth Highlanders
72nd Duke of Albany's Own Highlanders
and
78th The Highland Ross-shire Buffs

The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (Princess Lousie's)
91st The Argylleshire Highlanders
and
93rd Sutherland Highlanders.

In some cases a joint name was given to the new regiment, but in other cases the name of the senior regiment was used.

The 1st of Foot - The Royal Scots, 21st - Royal Scots Fusiliers, 25th- King's Own Borderers, and the 79th - The Queens' Own Cameron Highlanders were already two battalion regiments and left alone until the 1960s.

For a few more months only until the creation of the new Scottish "super-regiment" the present situation is.....

The Royal Scots (The Royal Regiment) [1st of Foot]

The Royal Highland Fusiliers (Princess Margaret's Own Glasgow and Ayrshire Regiment [21st, 71st, & 74th]

The King's Own Scottish Borderers [25th]

The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) [42nd & 73rd]

The Highlanders (Seaforth, Gordons and Camerons) [72nd, 75th, 78th, 79th & 92nd]

The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (Princess Louise's) [91st & 93rd]

The Scottish Rifles (Cameronians) [26th & 90th] were disbanded on the 14th May 1968. They had refused the opportunity to amalgamate with another regiment, considering that it would be impossible for the traditions of the Cameronians to be maintained under such circumstances.

The formal disbandment took place at a conventicle close to Castle Dangerous just outside Douglas on the very same hillside where the regiment had been raised on 19th April 1689, - the final words of the Lt-Col to the officer commanding the parade being "We have to go now, sir. It is time for us to go." Incidentally, the Colonel-in-Chief of the Cameronians had for many years been the Swedish king.

David

[Joan]

Tracey, Andrew and David

Many, many thanks.

I have ordered the SP Cert to confirm regiment of Robert Fraser they have listed. It would be rude not to.
I actually fancy the the one you found Andrew as indeed my great uncle was born in Kirkcaldy.
Thank you for the links to the Scottish Memorial site which I knew nothing about, I believe I may have found another missing gg uncle from my Mum's side, a line of enquiry I had sidelined until now.

David, thank you very much for all the background stuff. I think you may well be correct as he was on of my relatives who had a huge blank - born 1870 missing from records appears at age 27 to get married.
The history is also interesting as my grandad was a career soldier in The Black Watch, I believe the 1st Battalion. I will await th cert from SP and then book a day's leave to be spent at Kew.
If I can return the favours please let me know
Again many many thanks
Joan