Name, rank and serial number?.....

[ladybird]

......well, rank and/or regiment will do please
This is my Great Uncle, Francis Townsend, who I know went to South Africa after WW1 and worked as an accountant at the Royal Naval Hospital, Simon's Town. He was born about 1890 in Motherwell and that's about all I know about him ....except he looks devilishly handsome in his uniform
One for the Military folks maybe... Davie?

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-80

Sylvia

[DavidWW]

......well, rank and/or regiment will do please
This is my Great Uncle, Francis Townsend, who I know went to South Africa after WW1 and worked as an accountant at the Royal Naval Hospital, Simon's Town. He was born about 1890 in Motherwell and that's about all I know about him ....except he looks devilishly handsome in his uniform
One for the Military folks maybe... Davie?

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-80

Sylvia

A search on scotlandspeople.gov.uk only produces 1 possibility in the period 1885 to 1895. At first it looks like his mother has a most unusual surname, but dig a little deeper and you'll see that an "s" has been mis-transcribed as an "a".

Davie

[ladybird]

Thanks Davie
That's definately them...mother Sarah Jane Marah. Now why couldn't I find him before??
I'm off to have a look for his sister who's been eluding me for ages, it's a pity there's no way to search just by parents names as I'm not totally sure of her first name
If anyone wants me, you'll find me browsing in the "stacks"
Sylvia

[DavidWW]

Thanks Davie
That's definately them...mother Sarah Jane Marah. Now why couldn't I find him before??
I'm off to have a look for his sister who's been eluding me for ages, it's a pity there's no way to search just by parents names as I'm not totally sure of her first name
If anyone wants me, you'll find me browsing in the "stacks"
Sylvia

It's not MARAH !! altho' it appears that way in this birth register index entry as well as in the in marriage register index entry of the parents.

You'll need to get back to the birth register entry and image for Sarah Jane to see the much simpler surname that it is.

This is the best wee example of such a mistranscription that I've seen in a long while, and I'm going to be using it in lectures under the title of "The Case of the 'Fat' 's'"

Davie

Later .... Hmmmmmmmm..................... Having reviewed all the register entries I've so far seen, I'm no longer certain whether it's an "a" or an "s"
dww

Later still ...... Having located another relevant register entry I'm now reasonably convinced that that unusual surname is correct

[DavidWW]

Hi Sylvia

Are you aware of Sarah's location in the 1881 census?

Don't hesitate to email me if it's a bit sensitive........

Davie

[ladybird]

Hi Davie
Sorry to cause you so much confusion, she definately was Sarah Jane MARAH (father John Marah, mother Catherine Ms McClure).... and there by hangs another tale.... She was supposedly born in Ireland but there is an illegitimate birth to a Catherine McClure in Glasgow which needed the added signature of the Sub-sheriff because of the delay in registration

Ho hum, guess I'll never know, Irish records are very hard!!!! TG for SP!

I have Sarah's hospital report from the Woodilee Asylum, looks like the poor soul suffered a dreadful attack of Post Natal blues, even to being classed as a lunatic. She went on to have several more children.

cheers, Sylvia

[Andy]

Hi both, sorry to jump in but only the spelling of Marah is unusual there are loads of Mara, O'Mara and O'Meara that are pronounced exactly the same as Marah.

The Mara version is VERY common in Tipperary (well over 200 heads of house). McClure is, almost entirely, found in the most northern counties especially, Antrim (92 families), Armagh (44), Down (57) and Donegal (39).

As a rule of thumb, Irish from the middle and southern counties went to the West side of England, Wales and the Isle of Man whereas those from the North and Belfast generally moved to Scotland

[DavidWW]

Thanks Davie
That's definately them...mother Sarah Jane Marah. Now why couldn't I find him before??
I'm off to have a look for his sister who's been eluding me for ages, it's a pity there's no way to search just by parents names as I'm not totally sure of her first name
If anyone wants me, you'll find me browsing in the "stacks"
Sylvia

Sylvia

I got sidetracked by the "a" vs "s" situation.................

To find his sisters is easy, - just look for the family in the 1891 census in Scotland, and you will find 2 sisters, 1 born in Ireland, plus a brother, also born in Ireland.

As for the uniform and rank, first I'll ask a mate. If he doesn't come up with the goods, there a web page to which I'll refer you.

Davie

[ladybird]

A bit of a puzzle here?
I've found them on the 1891 but there is no trace of any of them anywhere on the 1901.
Is that census complete?

Mum has been talking about an "auntie Dolly" who's name she thinks was Sarah Dorothy. If this is right she would have been born after Francis and would only show up on the 91. I can't find any births for someone of this name...there again my Mum can get confused at times.

Andy
According to my old Mum, the Marah's were from Co. Kerry, possibly Kenmare, although 2 of John Marah's Townsend grandchildren were born on Killarney. John Marah is listed as a Land Steward on Sarah Marah's marriage cert.
Sylvia

[DavidWW]

A bit of a puzzle here?
I've found them on the 1891 but there is no trace of any of them anywhere on the 1901.
Is that census complete?

As complete as the returns that were made.

I've had a "play" with the Scottish census in terms of various wildcards and initials, but no joy, sooooo........, unless they are "hiding" behind a mistranscription, I'd suspect that they weren't in Scotland on the 1901 census date. My first guess would be that they were back in Ireland, but, as far as I'm aware, there is no Irish equivalent of the PRO or GROS on-line census indexes.

http://www.genealogybranches.com/irishcensus.html gives some details of available material.

The English on-line census should not be ignored either. Has to worth a punt of the £5 or whatever it is involved ..............

Mum has been talking about an "auntie Dolly" who's name she thinks was Sarah Dorothy. If this is right she would have been born after Francis and would only show up on the 91. I can't find any births for someone of this name...there again my Mum can get confused at times.

My reaction would be to trust her memory, but be resigned to creative use of the pet name Dolly. In other words, it would most often be a pet version of Dorothy, but who knows ??

As you state there's nothing remotely like this in the Scottish records which adds to my belief that they moved from Scotland some time after the date of the 1891 census.

FreeBMD has 35 Sarah TOWNSENDs and 60 Dorothy TOWNSENDs (hadn't realised just how popular that name was in England ) in the period 1891 to 1901, but no Sarah Dorothy or the reverse, although I didn't check if the FreeBMD coverage of that period is complete.

If you like I can put you in touch with an Irish professional researcher who can check the indexes over there, or if he can't - he's Belfast based, and I can't for the life of me recall for the moment exactly which indexes are held by PRONI in Belfast, - can probably put you in touch with someone who can.....

Davie

PS Looking forward to you buying me a Steinlager or three in June in Aotearoa 8-[