Death of Robert Singer Innes at sea

ficam · Post by **ficam** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:12 pm

Hello everyone - I am a new member and am very impressed with the replies I have seen so far.

I wonder if anyone can help me with my family mystery?

I am researching my family tree and have been fairly successful - apart from the one person who we thought we knew the most about when we started!

My great grandfather , Robert Singer Innes was supposed to have died whilst on a coaster - the "Masson Sand", in the English Channel in the early 1920's. His widow remarried in 1922, so assume it was before that.

He was said to have lost a leg at the age of 16 in the Boer war , so was not involved on active service in WW1, so assume again it must have been after 1919..? However , I can find no trace of the "Masson Sand" ( this name may be wrong as it has been passed down verbally); or Robert's death in either Scottish or English records.
Nor can I find online a coaster called the Masson Sand.

Apart from the above , what we know is -

He was born in 1882
He ws married in 1904 to Jemima Tait, in Fraserburgh.
He lived in Fraserburgh and his widow stayed on there after his death.
His children note his occupation on their marriage certificates as Merchant Seaman , deceased. Although I am not sure what a one legged man could do on a coaster?!
His widow received a pension or a lump sum as compensation, presumably from the ships owners.
In 1901 he was staying with a brother in Glasgow ( a policeman) so he may have gone back there to look for work on the coaster? he has no previous history as a seaman so can only presume he needed work at the end of the war....

As well as trying to find any record of his death , I would also be interested in finding out anything about his Boer war experience - how and where he lost his leg, especially as he seems to have been so young at the time. I have absolutely no other info on regiment etc

I have been looking for any info for the last 3 years so if anyone can help , I will be very grateful!!

Thanks

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:27 am

Hello Ficam,

I didn’t have any luck at all with this. Possibly the second part of the ships name should be Sands. You may have to check the Merchant Seamen records at the National Archives to have any chance of sorting this one out. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... fletID=128

The Boer War was declared 11th October, 1899. The records aren’t on line but what is available can be accessed at the National Archives. Records for the period you’re interested in are sorted by name rather than by regiment.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mili ... /step4.htm

If he did lose a leg during the Boer War he may well have been recuperating in Glasgow. I’d say many men could have handled a life at sea with only one leg. Look at Long John Silver, and Horatio Nelson had one arm, one eye and seasickness.

You have probably seen this site where it has him as a Stoker in the Merchant Marine. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... innes.html

There must be a very good chance the incident was reported in a Fraserburgh newspaper. It looks like the Fraserburgh Herald is on microfilm. http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/familyh ... .asp#micro

In theory a Scottish death on a British registered ship at sea should be recorded in the Marine Registers on SP in the Minor Records. I haven’t checked them myself but maybe someone will be able to find it.

Of course all of the above is much easier said than done, but hope it helps,
Alan

LATER

These NA records may be useful.
Births, Marriages and Deaths at Sea
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... ID=246&j=1

Alan

Hugh MacLean · Post by **Hugh MacLean** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:00 pm

Hello Ficam,

There were no central Merchant Navy records kept for the period of your interest.

I cannot find a ship by that name either which is unfortunate as crew lists are about the only way to trace service during this time.

I think your best bet would be to search in the Register of Deaths at Sea which is held at the National Archives, Kew in piece BT 334. For the years 1920 - 1922 you need BT 334/ 80 at this link here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... ails=False

If his death was outside these dates then it would be a different file.

These records are best viewed by a visit to the Archives.

ficam · Post by **ficam** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:41 pm

Thanks for all your suggestions...

I have searched SP with no success ( spending a small fortune in the process!)

I have gone to Fraserburgh and searched manually through many editions of the Fraserburgh Herald ( not on microfilm by the way, just original copy) I found a couple of interesting snippets about other relatives, so not a total waste of time - but not Robert.

I have been in touch with the author of Maggies Irish Kin ( who is married to a distant relative) and they know no more than that ( which was taken from a son's marriage cert)

I have tried searching for "Innes" in the NA indexes (BT334)with no success ,although I don't find them at all user-friendly! Do you know if there is a chance that the record might still be there even though the surname does not appear to show up in the index?

I will try the others for the Boer war years.....

He is an absolute mystery... I have noticed a couple of postings referring people to The Mitchell Library so I think that might be my next stop...

I had not thought about him recuperating in Glasgow - that is a possibility, although he is staying with his brother and working - as a Commissionaire - in the 1901 census. The family story also states that he returned straight home to the family croft when he got back to Scotland and his mother did not recognise him approaching the house as he had aged so much in his short time away...but the family stories on this guy have not been reliable so far!!

The hunt goes on.....

Hugh MacLean · Post by **Hugh MacLean** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:59 pm

ficam wrote:I have tried searching for "Innes" in the NA indexes (BT334)with no success ,although I don't find them at all user-friendly! Do you know if there is a chance that the record might still be there even though the surname does not appear to show up in the index?

Helo ficam,

You will not be able to search for a surname in BT 334 online. These files are large and best viewed by visiting Kew. You could use the Digital Express service that I linked to in my first post but I expect this would be of little use to you unless you knew the month and year that the seaman died.

If you are unable to visit then it would be better to use their research service, details here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/gett ... _research2 It should not take more than 15 minutes to search the whole volume of BT 334/80.

ficam · Post by **ficam** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:00 pm

Thanks again - I have filled in a request form for the National Archives so we will see what that turns up. This man is costing me a fortune!

Does anyone know whether the Deaths at sea records in the Mitchell Library are all recorded on Scotlands People? If so, I would be wasting my time checking there, as I know Roberts death is not recorded in Scotland as I have tried all entries between the birth of his youngest child (minus 9 months!) to the date of his wife's second marriage. But if it does hold other records it seems like my next best bet.....

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:17 am

Hello Ficam,

I can’t help with the Mitchell but this Miramar Ship Index site may be worth a look.
http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/

If you search for san or sand or mas or son for example it will bring up ship’s names containing those strings of letters and you may spot something similar to what could be misheard as Masson Sand. I had a quick look but couldn’t see anything interesting. The site may crash occasionally but just persist with it.

Just looking at the loss of leg in Boer War story. I don’t know how long it takes to recover from an amputated leg but there isn’t a very big window between the commencement of the Boer War in October 1899 and the March 1901 census when he was employed as a Commissionaire, especially if you considered all that would have had to happen in between.

Hope that helps,
Alan

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