Wanted - Expert in Ship Crew Agreements!

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:04 pm

Hi all
I'm on the trail of an Alexander McNicol b. 1864 Glasgow.
I have a copy of a Ship Crew Agreement of Ship Sardhana (official number: 87421 ) on which an Alexander McNicol died in 1887(not necessarily the one I'm after, but he looks like he might be). He is the only crew member who died on the voyage leaving from Greenock in December 1885 to Sydney and returning to Liverpool in March 1887.

I'm very aware of digging about in records with which I am not at all familiar - there may be clues in these Crew Agreement documents which I'm just not picking up on. e.g. there are initials in the margin to the left of his name - which look like "W&E" and then in the final column (where everyone else has signed for their pay) it says "one bag" (presumably his belongings) preceeded by what looks like "W&S&W" "R&B" or "RB"- maybe someone's initials?? No one else on the voyage appears to have died and he is the only one with these notes - I'd be most grateful to anyone who can explain what these notations are?

Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **Tracey** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:13 am

Hi Lesley

I have The Crews of The Cutty Sark book and that has a Crew Agreement in it. The closest i can see to some of the initials you have although not the same are......... could W&E possibly be wage and engagement and RB possibly AB, R&B poss RFD Reason for Discharge

Looking again..the final column after the signature does have initials and they are Signature or Initials of official before whom the balance of wages was paid and released. Unfortunately no one died on this voyage so there is nothing like your entry on it.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:09 pm

Hi Tracey
Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure about the W&E - it is only written against Alexander's name, none of the others, (it looks like it has a 1 after if - W&E1) as are the other letters W&S&W and what looks like RB, so I rather think that they must be something to do with his having died on board - maybe abbreviations for something to do with what happened to his body or what happened to his one bag? (I've presumed "buried at sea" here, but I may be wrong...) Or maybe noting paperwork which has been completed in connection with the death. And the RB could be someone's initials maybe?? Someone who dealt with the paperwork surrounding his death? Though no one of note on the ship or at Liverpool on arrival would seem to fit the RB initials.

Its a photocopy, though quite clear. I think the best thing maybe is to see if it will scan OK and maybe upload the image(s). Will post link later if scans are clear...

OK - here they are:
1st page showing letters W&E1? to left of no. 14, Alexander McNicol
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-301
I wonder now if this maybe stands for "Wages and Effects" which is mentioned on the "instructions to Masters" pages as being one of the items which must be delivered to the Superintendant of the Mercantile Marine Office on arriavl at port for any member of the crew who had died....
2nd page - 18/3/87 at sea, Died of Dropsy, then what looks like W&S&W and initials? RB
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-300

Master of the ship was George Allen.

best wishes
Lesley

Post by **Tracey** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:18 pm

Hi Lesley

I thought id put my two penneth in for what its worth ! If you do upload it and no one knows what the initials are i will ask when i go the The Maritime Museum but that may not be till the New Year now.

Tracey

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:52 pm

OK thanks Tracey - that would be a big help if nothing else turns up. I've uploaded the images now.

I suspect its one of those situations where if you were looking at these sort of documents all the time it would be blinking obvious what it means.

I think you might be on the right track with the first W being for wages maybe "wages & effects", see above.

Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **Tracey** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:37 pm

Hi Lesley

1st page showing letters W&E1? to left of no. 14, Alexander McNicol

Clutching at straws now ...........The 1 possibly refering to 1 bag ? strange place to put it though.

Your right you are probably going to kick yourself when you do find out what they mean

Now your post has been revived someone is bound to come up with the answer

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:59 am

Hello all

Page one he is an AB - Able seaman.

As for the RB initials they are there due to the correction, and more than likely are the signature of the pursor or perhaps first mate.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:12 am

Hi Stew
Thanks for your reply.
The AB is not a problem, its the "W&E1" which is the mystery.
The first mate is a man called what looks like J.S. Geekie/Geetire [not clear writing]
The second mate is a man called R Wm Jones.
There is another mate Robert Johnstone
The man at HM office Liverpool who ceritifies that Alex.McNicol received "every attention and medicine" during his illness is a J Farrie
(The owners of the ship are W & J Crawford)

- just can't see anyone onboard on mentioned within the document with the initials "RB"....
Have you seen a crew list where someone dies during the journey before? Were similar or the same annotations used?

best wishes
Lesley

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:17 pm

Hi folks,
And now for a really wild guess! It being similar to an RCE on a BMD with a clerical mistake?

Witness & Error 1 .... RB

Less sure of W for Witness, but E for Error might be reasonable taking that the original entry was in the wrong columns.
Maybe this was written after the ship returned home when the crew list was being checked at the shipping company's HQ, and RB was the clerk?

Jack