Alexander McNicol

[Alcluith]

(Admin can you move the post relating to this subject to this new topic. Done)

Lesley,

The Sardhana was a Bargue in the Andrew Weir Bank Line. As they are still in existance I have sent an e-mail to them to see if they have any records for the period when Alexander died. It's a long shot but worth exploring.

You also mentioned Daniel being missing but do you have more information on the other brothers? who were the witnesses at their marriages? did they go abroad?

Both Alexander and Daniel were clerks so why go to sea?

[Alcluith]

Lesley,

do you checked these?

No Year Surname (M) Forename (M) Surname (F) Forename (F) District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1 1905 MCNICOL DANIEL CLUNIE MARTHA LETHAM COATBRIDGE OR OLD MONKLAND /LANARK 652/02 0036 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
2 1897 MCNICOL DANIEL CRAWFORD ALEXANDRINA CATHCART /LANARK/RENFREW 560/00 0084 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
3 1899 MCNICOL DANIEL CURRIE MARY DENNISTOUN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/03 0219 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
4 1897 MCNICOL DANIEL JOHNSTON ALEXANDERINA CATHCART /LANARK/RENFREW 560/00 0084 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
5 1895 MCNICOL DANIEL MCLEOD ANN ST ROLLOX GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/06 0248 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
6 1895 MCNICOL DANIEL PITT ANN ST ROLLOX GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/06 0248 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
7 1897 MCNICOL DANIEL THOMSON ALEXANDRINA CATHCART /LANARK/RENFREW 560/00 0084 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
8 1896 MCNICOL DANIEL WADDELL JEANIE BLYTHSWOOD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/07 0487 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
9 1909 MCNICOL DANIEL WILSON HANNAH PAISLEY /RENFREW 573/01 0212 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

[DavidWW]

Clerks were often used in the role of supercargo.

David

[LesleyB]

Hi Drew
and many thanks for even looking at this one - any small bit of help is very much appreciated as I'm really stuck with it.
Yes, I was aware of the Sardhana's details:

ANDREW WEIR SHIPPING & TRADING CO. LTD
(BANK LINE)
From 1885 to 1955
http://www.red-duster.co.uk/AWEIR3.htm
Sardhana Built 1885, Aquired 1891, Tons 1146, Length 215.1, Beams 35.1, depth 21.2 An iron barque built by Russell & Co., she was sold on in 1911 to Scandinavian owners and was abandoned at sea in July, 1918.
Possible picture at:
http://www.pictureaustralia.org/
search for Sardhana
and mention of a picture at:
http://www.anmm.gov.au/lib/spixss.pdf
Australian National Maritime Museum Library

sv SARDHAMA
built by Russell & Co Port Glasgow,
Yard No 138
Propulsion: sail
Built: 1885
Ship Type: sailing vessel
Ship's Role: cargo ship
Tonnage: 1146 grt
Length: 215.1 feet
Breadth: 35.1 feet
Owner History:
W & J Crawford - sold 1891 Andrew Weir
Status: Sunk - July 1918
Remarks: Sold to Andrew Weir in 1891, then sold on again to Scandanavian owners. Abandoned at sea.
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/v ... p?id=17524

Alexander seems to disappear after mention in a legal document in 1885. (NAS RD5/2006, folio 162, M.B. 52) Their father Daniel's estate was split between the three boys: James, Daniel and Alexander, the only remaining children. As soon as Alexander was 21 the trustees of the estate could be discharged. They are resident in the valuation rolls for 492 Paisley Road for 1883-4, but NOT 1885-6 [1884-1885? not seen - could not find address.]) The Alexander who died at sea was the ONLY mention of an Alexander McNicol of about the approx. correct age I could find, so I thought he was worth at least following up. As far as I remember I've checked ALL Alexander McNicol deaths at NRH and the one at sea was the only one I found which was possible. There were only 2 marriages which I could not see images for so could not rule out - one in 1932 Govan & one in 1954 Greenock West (both a little late) -the rest I've checked at NRH. big zero. Either he is the one who died at sea, or he has gone elsewhere, but not England in 1901... maybe Australia, New Zealand, America, South Africa - who knows??

Daniel also disappears after the mention in 1885. I have not had the time to check him as thoroughly, (its Alexander's fault!) but as far as I remember (lesson: I MUST keep better notes!) I've checked all Daniel Mcnicol deaths and marriages at NRH and nothing relevant was found, so I can't say I have checked all the ones you've menitoned for sure, they were all looked at in a busy day at NRH... maybe I've missed something...and maybe I need to check again and take proper notes this time. One for the "to do" list.

So - I have found no marriages for them. No deaths. (apart from the one at sea which may or may not be Alexander) Yes, I know they were both clerks. No family stories to help with this one. You would think they would just carry on with their jobs and be around for the 1891. What would you do if you'd just inherited the equivalent of £70,000? Buy a house? Set up a business? Travel the world?

Their elder brother James, a housefactor, premises at 79 Robertson Street Glasgow, married in 1890 (no, his brothers are not there as witnesses!) is entirely absent for the 1891 index but I think he's there somewhere, I have a hunch on an area to check manually. He bought a villa in Bearsden in 1896 and had three children, two of whom died before they were 20. The youngest child, the only one to survive, is my grandmother.

David -

Clerks were often used in the role of supercargo

ship's official in charge of business affairs?
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dict ... 12406.html
The Alexander who died at sea was down as an "AB" - surely this is an ordinary "able bodied" member of crew - would a clerk have been described as this?

Thanks to anyone who has read this far! Sorry if it seems over-involved. One day I'll get to the bottom of this one...
Best wishes
Lesley

[Alcluith]

Lesley,

So - I have found no marriages for them. No deaths. (apart from the one at sea which may or may not be Alexander) Yes, I know they were both clerks. No family stories to help with this one. You would think they would just carry on with their jobs and be around for the 1891. What would you do if you'd just inherited the equivalent of £70,000? Buy a house? Set up a business? Travel the world?

You are right probibly one of the last two, but I would not go into the merchant navy as an AB unless I went abroad lost all my money and had to make my way back to the UK?

I see you have done a lot of work on this previously but sometimes its good to revisit it all just in case you have overlooked something.


Hope this has been of help

[LesleyB]

Hi Drew
Yeah, I did consider the "invested all the money in dodgy area" and "gambled/drank/generally unhealthy lifestyle" options. Neither can be discounted as I know so little about Alexander and Daniel.

its good to revisit it all just in case you have overlooked something

Sure - that is one of the great things about this forum - its so easy to get stuck in rut, thinking you have covered everything. Someone with a fresh look at it or an angle you hadn't considered can be an enormous help.

I need to recheck Daniel. I'm sure I've checked all deaths and marriages at NRH, but it wouldn't take long just to re-check.

I also need to track down James & his wife in the 1891 (possibly easier said than done, given that SP agree that he and his wife are not in the index...maybe one of the brothers was visiting?) and check VRs for his previous (I think rented) accomodation in 1890 - 37 Great Western Road. I still don't know where he was between 1885-1890 & 1890 - 1896, although he is in business in 1893-4 Glasgow PO Directory as "house factor and insurance agent" at 79 Robertson Street, so obviously in the Glasgow area, but I have no home address for him. I believe the PO directories were annual at this point so that would be worth checking ( long list for the Mitchell - I'll get there one of these days!!!)

Alexander and Daniel have to have been somewhere or died somewhere. They were mentioned as still at 492 Paisley Road in 1885 - the mystery is what the heck happened to them after that??

Best wishes & thanks for your help
Lesley

[Alcluith]

Lesley,
There is another Alexander McNicol in the 1881 census that could fit the d.a.s. Alaxander, but you are likely to aready know this from your research.

What about Aunty Janet where did she end up were any of the boys around when she died? probibly James if anyone

[LesleyB]

Hi Drew
I had note of 2 other Alexander McNicols of about the right age born Glasgow but neither looked likely to have ended up at sea. However, I've just realised that I only checked the Lowland Scotland disc. Which one did you find?

• Dwelling: 25 Maclean St
  Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
  Source: FHL Film 0203684 GRO Ref Volume 646-1 EnumDist 7
  Alexander MC NICOL U 22 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
  Rel: Son
  Occ: Cow Feeder
  
  Dwelling: Netherton
  Census Place: Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland
  Source: FHL Film 0203587 GRO Ref Volume 575 EnumDist 10
  Alexander MC NICOL U 22 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
  Rel: Visitor
  Occ: Farmer

...and as for Auntie Janet. Well she is, I'm sorry to say, another mystery....
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Best wishes
Lesley

[Alcluith]

Lesley,

Found both Alexanders but thought the first to be more likely to change profession.

Done a quick search for Janet and came up with the following likely suspects. None of them showed up as single, all married but could have been a late marriage.

4 1892 MCNICOL JANET BAILLIE F 53 PAISLEY /RENFREW 573/00 0790
6 1901 MCNICOL JANET MCKAY F 65 ST ROLLOX GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/06 1546
7 1903 MCNICOL JANET TURCAN F 71 DENNISTOUN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/03 0296
9 1908 MCNICOL JANET CRAVEN F 71 CAMBUSLANG GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 627/00 0158
12 1911 MCNICOL JANET STEVENSON F 75 RENTON /DUNBARTON 494/02 0054
13 1914 MCNICOL JANET THOMSON F 73 RUTHERGLEN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 654/00 0270
14 1915 MCNICOL JANET MCRAE ROY F 85 HILLHEAD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/12 0691

I still have the feeling that they moved abroad but why not James unless there was a young lady in his life - when did he marry?

[DavidWW]

Lesley

If he was down as an AB he certainly wasn't the supercargo!

David