Agnes Mcnaught.....

[maggie]

Hello Jack
many thanks for the information
i will try to get my head around it tomorrow night shift at present
so no clear thinking skills at all .
kind regards maggie

[Jack]

Hi Maggie,
I think you've done very well in finding Agnes McNAUGHT's 1856 DC - and i believe she is "yours".
Agnes died, as you know, in Elderslie - which was in the Abbey (Paisley) Parish.
This is well away from Bonhill, where you'd expect her to be...and died whilst visiting her son James & family...?
Agnes' DC may very well open up whole new lines of McNaughts (and other names) for you!
The censuses below (in italics), i know you have.
--
I'm now very much suspecting - but no real proof as such,
that the JEAN McNAUGHTON (60) in 1841 Gallowgate is AGNES McNAUGHT,
and with her daur Jean GARDNER - maybe just a wee slip by hubby Thomas on his mo-in-law's name?

It's hard not to believe that the GARDNER children in 1841 aren't the same ones with gr-parents in 1851,
and so i'm sure you have the correct James (76) McNAUGHT & Agnes (74) in Bonhill 1851.
(James & son Arthur were in Burn Street 1841 - James & wife Agnes were in Burn Street 1851)
--
1841 cens 493 Ed 7 p 9 (Bonhill)
Burn Street
James McNAUGHT, 60, calico printer, j/man, b SCT
Arthur McNAUGHT, 20, calico printer, app, b DNB
--
1841 cens 644-1 Ed 68 p 20 (St. John)
Gallowgate, Glasgow.
// Thomas GARDNER, 30, engraver, b SCT
Jean GARDNER, 30, --------------------b SCT
Agness GARDNER, 4, ------------------b SCT
Jean GARDNER, 2, ----------------------b SCT
Margt. GARDNER, 4mos, ---------------b LKS
/ Jean McNAUGHTON, 60, --------------b SCT
Neil McNAUGHTON, 20, calico printer, ap, b SCT
Thomas DIXON, 20, calico printer, ap, b LKS
Agness NESBIT, 8yrs, --------------------b SCT
(a pity this Jean McNaughton aged 60 wasn't as Agnes....)

Is the above wee Agness NESBIT the daur of this couple below?
(Elizabeth being another of the daurs of James & Agnes)
JOHN NISBET
ELIZABETH MACNAUGHTON
Marriage: 05 SEP 1829 Bonhill, Dunbarton, Scotland
(they were possibly in the Greenock area 1841) [they weren't - it's a different Nisbet family]
--
1851 cens 493 (394) Ed 8 p 13 (Bonhill)
Burn Street.
James McNAUGHT, head, marr, 76, pauper, formerly calico printer, b Luss, DNB
Agness McNAUGHT, wife, marr, 74, pauper, formerly calico printer, b Dumbarton, DNB
Jane GARDNER, gr-daur, 12yrs, printfield worker, b Glasgow, LKS
Margaret GARDNER, gr-daur, 10yrs, printfield worker, b Glasgow, LKS
James GARDNER, gr-son, 8yrs, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
==
Is it brothers John & Thomas GARDNER married to sisters Margaret & Jean McNAUGHT(ON)...?
JOHN GARDNER
MARGARET MACNAUGHTAN
Marriage: 09 JUL 1826 Bonhill, Dunbarton, Scotland

1841 cens 493 Ed 6 pp 28-29 (Bonhill)
Gardiner's Land.
// James GARDINER, 70, print cutter, b DNB
// John GARDINER, 40, calico printer j/man, b DNB
Margt. GARDINER, 35, -------------------b DNB
Jane GARDINER, 11, tearer, ----------b DNB
James GARDINER, 9, -----------------b DNB
John GARDINER, 7, ------------------b DNB
Agnes GARDINER, 4, ---------------b DNB
Thomas GARDINER, 1, ---------b DNB
// James McNAUGHT, 25, calico printer j/man, b DNB
Agnes McNAUGHT, 25, ---------------------------b SCT
James McNAUGHT, 1, -------------------------b DNB

Above is the James McNAUGHT who i think was the informant son on Agnes' 1856 DC in Elderslie.
You'll notice in 1841 he's living beside a GARDINER family (just coincidence? maybe not),
and in 1851 he's in Elderslie - but as born Bonhill. Interestingly he has a son Arthur.
It might be well worth following him in the censuses, and also getting his DC
--
1851 cens 573-3 (470) Ed 5 p 28 (Abbey - Paisley)
48 Elderslie Village.
James McNAUGHT, head, marr, 36, block printer, b Bonhill, DNB
Agnes McNAUGHT, wife, marr, 37, -------------------b Buchlivie, STI
James McNAUGHT, son, 11, tearer at printwork, b Bonhill, DNB
Andrew McNAUGHT, son, 9, tearer at printwork, b Bonhill, DNB
Mary Ann McNAUGHT, daur, 7, scholar, b Bonhill, DNB
Alexander McNAUGHT, son, 5, scholar, b Bonhill, DNB
Arthur McNAUGHT, son, 3, ---------------b Elderslie, RFW
Agnes McNAUGHT, daur, 7mos, -------b Elderslie, RFW
==
And then there's this Neil, also worth a look at - is he the 20yr old in the Gallowgate in 1841?
[Thorn is very near to Elderslie - just to the west of]
1851 cens 573-3 (470) Ed 4 p 3 (Abbey - Paisley)
Thorn Village.
Neil McNAUGHT, head, marr, 29, calico printer, b b Bonhill, DNB [Neil has shaved a few years off...maybe because wife is younger]
Janet McNAUGHT, wife, marr, 22, -----------------b Abbey, RFW
James McNAUGHT, son, 10mos, ----------------b Abbey, RFW
==
But it is a lot of guesswork...a fair bit of checking to prove, or disprove as the case may be....
Jack

[maggie]

Hello Jack
WOW
You are amazing ,the James of 1851 Elderslie(48 Elderslie village)
i have bits of info on him like his marriage to Agnes Malcolm in 1839 in Bonhill,the 1881 census,and his death cert in 1883 thanks to Davie and his wonderfull Mcnaughton/Mcnaughtan/Mcnaught records.Davie had also given me the 1881 census for the son Arthur who is shown age 3 in 1851 and i was able to follow him up he turned out to be a very interesting character in that he was Paisley's first professional fire fighter who received the Kings medal in 1922.(i found this from googling and thanks to a gentlemans intrest in the fire service history through the years)
But now thanks to you i have the family in 1851 and a whole host of names to explore SP here i come......
The death cert for James in 1883 shows his mother to be Agnes McKenzie & father James & married to Agnes malcolm .

Gardners
I had a look yesterday and found Jean/Jane (the 12 yr old in the 1851 with Agnes & James )born 1839 Elderslie as an IGI members submission also a marriage for her in 1860 to a John Anderson so i got the marriage cert on SP parents are recorded as being deceased and James McNaught is the wittness so that all tied in nicely,i have also found 2 births recorded on the IGI of a Jane Anderson in 1862 Renfrew & Mary Young Anderson born 1864 Dumbarton to parents John Anderson &Jane Gardner,so will get the certs from SP today.I didn't have much sucess with my searches for her 2 siblings ,but will go back on the "hunt"

What a find Jack Margaret marrying a Gardner too i will need to have a clear head to work all this lot out but what a joy i'm sooooo excited,not forgetting Neil .Thankyou ever so much no doubt i will be back to pick your brains when i explore this little lot but first i have a pot of paint & a brush and some windows waiting for my attention while the sun is shining kind regards maggie
edit
Just re-read your message and actually digested it properly
i must learn not to rush to reply before i do that
Nisbet yet another exploration yipee!!!

[Jack]

Hi Maggie,
Forgot to ask...do you already have these?
--
JEAN MC NAUGHTON - Birth: 22 JUL 1809; Christening: 08 AUG 1809 Campsie, Stirling, Scotland
Parents:
JAMES MC NAUGHTON
AGNES MC KINZIE
[LDS submission]
--
NEIL MCNAUGHTAN Birth: 27 OCT 1817 Bonhill, Dunbarton, Scotland
Parents:
JAMES MCNAUGHTAN
AGNES MACKENZIE
[OPR extract]
--
Jack

[maggie]

Hello Jack
thankyou no i hadn't got them i hope to settle down in a little while
for some time on SP.
thanks once again
kind regards maggie

[maggie]

Hello Jack
here's what i have come up with so far using the following info that you kindly found for me on Mcnaught/Mcnaughtan/Mcnaughton

1851 cens 573-3 (470) Ed 5 p 28 (Abbey - Paisley)
48 Elderslie Village.
James McNAUGHT, head, marr, 36, block printer, b Bonhill, DNB
Agnes McNAUGHT, wife, marr, 37, -------------------b Buchlivie, STI
James McNAUGHT, son, 11, tearer at printwork, b Bonhill, DNB
Andrew McNAUGHT, son, 9, tearer at printwork, b Bonhill, DNB
Mary Ann McNAUGHT, daur, 7, scholar, b Bonhill, DNB
Alexander McNAUGHT, son, 5, scholar, b Bonhill, DNB
Arthur McNAUGHT, son, 3, ---------------b Elderslie, RFW
Agnes McNAUGHT, daur, 7mos, -------b Elderslie, RFW

I had James ,Agnes,son James & son Arthur sorted out so working on the others i have found

Andrew married Margaret Brown in 1869
found in 1881 census with 5 kids (3 of which i have found births for on the IGI)will get certs from sp later on
DC found.

Alexander married Agnes Cuthberts Telfer in 1873
possible find in 1881 in Abbey Renfrew with 2 kids his age is out by a good few years (10 to be precise)as is Agnes' but the occupation fits with his occupation on DC so i need to go back and re-check the census.

Mary Ann married Robert Hutchinson in 1868
found in the 1871 census too.
Agnes found birth (extracted)
also found another child a girl called Jane born 1852.(extracted)

Jack as for the Gardners/Gardiners and the Nisbits went round in circles
last night so am going to attempt them again today.
thanks once again