Hi all,
I have another request for anyone visiting the Mitchell anytime soon to look for the record for my ancestor James McCormick/McCormack who died in the Glasgow City Poorhouse in November 1902. Not only would I like to get some clue to this man's life, but also I am looking especially for a place of birth. The only census record I have for him says born about 1835 in England, but no precise location. He married in Liverpool, but a search of the area turned up nothing. Also interested in seeing if they have a record of his parents' names.
So if anyone would not mind helping out an Aussie who just can't get there and have a look for myself, I would so appreciate it!
Thanks for reading,
Nina
Poorhouse Record for James McCormick record look up please?.
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ninatoo
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nelmit
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Re: Poorhouse Record for James McCormick- record look up ple
I'll have a look next time I'm there Nina but it could be a couple of weeks.ninatoo wrote:Hi all,
I have another request for anyone visiting the Mitchell anytime soon to look for the record for my ancestor James McCormick/McCormack who died in the Glasgow City Poorhouse in November 1902. Not only would I like to get some clue to this man's life, but also I am looking especially for a place of birth. The only census record I have for him says born about 1835 in England, but no precise location. He married in Liverpool, but a search of the area turned up nothing. Also interested in seeing if they have a record of his parents' names.
So if anyone would not mind helping out an Aussie who just can't get there and have a look for myself, I would so appreciate it!
Thanks for reading,
Nina
Annette M
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ninatoo
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nelmit
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Nina,ninatoo wrote:Thanks Nelmit! No real hurry, I just appreciate you taking the time to do it for me sooooo much!
Just realised that his wife Catherine born btw 1837 and 1841 also died in the poorhouse in June 1901, so if you come across her as well, that would be a bonus!
Thanks again,
Nina
What was her maiden name and where was she born?
Regards,
Annette m
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ninatoo
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Oops! I forgot to add that.
Well...in a couple of censuses she says she was born in Ireland, but one she says England. Her maiden name on births of the children has been written with numerous variations such as Tagg, Mc Tighe, Mc Taig, Mc Tague, Taig, etc. Parents seem to be James and Catherine McDermid, according to her death certificate.
As for James, his death certificate only names his father as Samuel, no mother's name.
Hope this helps!
Nina
Well...in a couple of censuses she says she was born in Ireland, but one she says England. Her maiden name on births of the children has been written with numerous variations such as Tagg, Mc Tighe, Mc Taig, Mc Tague, Taig, etc. Parents seem to be James and Catherine McDermid, according to her death certificate.
As for James, his death certificate only names his father as Samuel, no mother's name.
Hope this helps!
Nina
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nelmit
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Catherine McTague
Hello Nina,
There is an application for Catherine made in 1886 but unfortunately there was 'no production' in the archives today, ie no one to get the books. At least you know one is there and I will look when I can.
I can tell you she was born in Wicklow, Ireland in 1836 according to the index.
There were lots of James McCormack/ick applications. Most were born in Ireland (none in Liverpool). Hopefully I shall be able to narrow it down when I see Catherine's.
Kind regards,
Annette M
There is an application for Catherine made in 1886 but unfortunately there was 'no production' in the archives today, ie no one to get the books. At least you know one is there and I will look when I can.
I can tell you she was born in Wicklow, Ireland in 1836 according to the index.
There were lots of James McCormack/ick applications. Most were born in Ireland (none in Liverpool). Hopefully I shall be able to narrow it down when I see Catherine's.
Kind regards,
Annette M
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ninatoo
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Thanks for the update Annette. Old James is proving to be a bee in my bonnet, hehe. I had some friends look on the English records for him to no avail, and he is not with his family on the Scottish censuses after 1861. He changed jobs frequently too, which makes him all that more difficult to find.
To help pinpoint the right couple, I will provide you with as much detail as I can:
Married - 23 Nov 1857, St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England - I do NOT have this certificate and so this MAY well be incorrect, but it is the only one at the IGI.
Children - Mary Jane (1858, England), Catherine (1859-60, Glasgow), James (1860, Glasgow) Samuel James (1862, Glasgow) William (1864, Glasgow) Helen (1867, Glasgow) Michael (1871, d. 1871 Glasgow) Joseph ( 1875 Glasgow) and James (1880, Glasgow).
Occupations of James - (These were obtained from birth certificates of his children and also children's marriage certificates and death certificates, since I have not been able to find him on the censuses.)
Hawker of Jewellery, Jewellery (journeyman), Earthenware hawker, Commercial Traveller, Draper's Porter, Slater's Labourer.
James' Death - 26 November 1902, Senile Decay, Glasgow City Poorhouse. Father Samuel, mother unknown.
Catherine's Death - 16 June, 1901, Cardiac Valve Disease, Glasgow City Poorhouse. Father James, mother Catherine McDermid
Hope that can help narrow it down for you.
Thanks again Annette...you have been so much help to me already!!!
Nina
To help pinpoint the right couple, I will provide you with as much detail as I can:
Married - 23 Nov 1857, St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England - I do NOT have this certificate and so this MAY well be incorrect, but it is the only one at the IGI.
Children - Mary Jane (1858, England), Catherine (1859-60, Glasgow), James (1860, Glasgow) Samuel James (1862, Glasgow) William (1864, Glasgow) Helen (1867, Glasgow) Michael (1871, d. 1871 Glasgow) Joseph ( 1875 Glasgow) and James (1880, Glasgow).
Occupations of James - (These were obtained from birth certificates of his children and also children's marriage certificates and death certificates, since I have not been able to find him on the censuses.)
Hawker of Jewellery, Jewellery (journeyman), Earthenware hawker, Commercial Traveller, Draper's Porter, Slater's Labourer.
James' Death - 26 November 1902, Senile Decay, Glasgow City Poorhouse. Father Samuel, mother unknown.
Catherine's Death - 16 June, 1901, Cardiac Valve Disease, Glasgow City Poorhouse. Father James, mother Catherine McDermid
Hope that can help narrow it down for you.
Thanks again Annette...you have been so much help to me already!!!
Nina
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AndrewP
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Hi Nina,
These are the only children to this couple that I could find on the online IGI.
All the best,
Andrew Paterson
These are the only children to this couple that I could find on the online IGI.
- JAMES MCCORMICK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 13 FEB 1860 Anderston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Father: James McCormick, Mother: Catherine Tighe
SAMUEL JAMES MCCORMICK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 18 JAN 1862 Calton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Father: James McCormick, Mother: Catherine McTyge
WILLIAM MCCORMICK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 13 JUL 1864 Clyde, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Father: James McCormick, Mother: Catherine Taig
HELEN MCCORMICK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 01 JAN 1867 Clyde, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Father: James McCormick, Mother: Catherine McTighe
MICHAEL MCCORMICK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 25 SEP 1871 Clyde, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Father: James McCormick, Mother: Catherine McTighe
All the best,
Andrew Paterson
Last edited by AndrewP on Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ninatoo
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Hi Andrew,
THe children's names were aquired through the IGI and censuses. Some of the birth certificates have date and place of marriage noted for Catherine and James McCormick as Liverpool, with the correct date.
If there is anything consistent about Catherine's maiden name, it is its INCONSISTENT spelling, haha.
It was Joseph born in 1875 and I have his birth certificate. James was born in 1880, and while I don't yet have his birth certificate, he was with the family in 1881 as a one year old.
The first James probably died before 1871 (not with family in 1871), most probably 1861 from what I can see at SP, but have not yet obtained the certificate for it. (money, haha) Helen is also likely to have died before 1871 because 4 year old Helen is also not with the family in the 1871 census. There is one death for the same name in 1867, Glasgow at SP, but needs to be verified. Of course they could have been elsewhere...
Thanks for looking around for them!
Nina
THe children's names were aquired through the IGI and censuses. Some of the birth certificates have date and place of marriage noted for Catherine and James McCormick as Liverpool, with the correct date.
If there is anything consistent about Catherine's maiden name, it is its INCONSISTENT spelling, haha.
It was Joseph born in 1875 and I have his birth certificate. James was born in 1880, and while I don't yet have his birth certificate, he was with the family in 1881 as a one year old.
The first James probably died before 1871 (not with family in 1871), most probably 1861 from what I can see at SP, but have not yet obtained the certificate for it. (money, haha) Helen is also likely to have died before 1871 because 4 year old Helen is also not with the family in the 1871 census. There is one death for the same name in 1867, Glasgow at SP, but needs to be verified. Of course they could have been elsewhere...
Thanks for looking around for them!
Nina
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MaryE
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Hello Nina
Since there seemed to be a fairly clear connection with England in the 1850's I tried the 1851 census. There were several James McCormack/McCormick entries for a birthdate of 1835 +/- a few years. Almost all were born in Ireland. I checked all the ones listed as 'son' but none had a father called Samuel. The others were listed as 'lodger' so not very helpful and again none had a Samuel McCormack/McCormick in the household.
Looking at the children's birth dates it seemed likely that he was somewhere in Scotland for the 1861 and 1871 censuses, even if not at home with the family, but seeing that the last child was born in 1880 I thought it might be worth looking for him south of the border in 1881.
I found what would seem to be a very close match, even if not a very welcome one!
1881 Census Hampshire
RG11/1148 - Reg Dist Portsea Island - Sub Reg Dist Portsea Town
Enum Dist Haibonoit Prison, Portsmouth - Folio 100 - Page 41
James McCormack - Head - Married - 46 - Hawker - born Ireland
Unusually, the entries were not listed as 'prisoner' or 'inmate' - all were given either as 'Head' or 'Son'. The fact that this James is listed as married fits with a family back in Scotland and the age and occupation seem spot on. There were 41 pages of names with 25 names to a page - James was the last but one entry on the last page - so around 1000 prisoners. The birthplaces were from all over the place, including Ireland and Scotland. The prison would have been one of the prison hulks moored in the harbour. I did a Google search on Haibonoit but it only brings up this link to the Ancestry website which makes me think it might have been mistranscribed. It shouldn't be too difficult to find out more about these prison ships as there were many of them in the Portsmouth harbour. One website http://www.nmm.ac.uk/mag/pages/mnuExplo ... D=BHC1924- gives pictures and the following description:
A row of prison hulks in Portsmouth Harbour is shown on the left of the picture. These hulks were ships which were no longer seaworthy and commonly had their masts reduced or removed. They were introduced in the early 1770s, when an attempt was made to alleviate the pressure on prisons and they served as a cheap alternative to building more prisons on land. They were first used on the Thames, but Portsmouth soon had some moored in Langstone and Portsmouth Harbours, together with a hospital ship. The conditions on board the hulks were unheatlhy and overcrowded, with little or no ventilation since the ports on the landward side were boarded over as a deterrent against escape. The skyline of Portsmouth is visible in the distance to the left, together with a variety of shipping at anchor. A ship in full sail is moving towards the viewer and in the foreground is a row of sandbanks,with several figures shown on the largest bank on the right.
Armed with this 1881 info I went back to the 1851 census and found what I think must be the same James as one of the lodgers I had found earlier:
1851 Census Yorkshire
HO107/2308 - Reg Dist Bradford - Sub Reg Dist Bradford West End
Enum Dist 12 - Folio 222 - Page 26
Sched 70
3 Goit Side, Bradford (the next entry is 7 Brick Lane)
James McCormick - Lodger - Un - 16 - Hawker Hardware - born Ireland
Mary McCormick - Lodger - Un - 14 - Spinner - Spinner - born Ireland
Peter Faringdon - Lodger - Mar - 38 - Hawker - born Ireland
Mary Faringdon Lodger - 28 - born Ireland
These four seem to be separate to the main household as they are given under a separate schedule number (70) to the rest of the household (69) but none of the four is listed as head of the household so I think the separate schedule is perhaps a mistake. But amongst the lodgers listed as part of the first schedule at this address is another Mary McCormick, married, aged 38, washerwoman, born Ireland. She could be the mother of the two younger McCormicks though there are other lodgers listed between her entry and that of the younger two. There are several other lodgers in the house, all born Ireland, and the Head of the household is Bridget Brannan, aged 37, a widow, born Ireland, with her children, born Ireland/Bradford.
Don't know if these two entries refer to your James but they do seem to fit rather well.
Mary
TD
Since there seemed to be a fairly clear connection with England in the 1850's I tried the 1851 census. There were several James McCormack/McCormick entries for a birthdate of 1835 +/- a few years. Almost all were born in Ireland. I checked all the ones listed as 'son' but none had a father called Samuel. The others were listed as 'lodger' so not very helpful and again none had a Samuel McCormack/McCormick in the household.
Looking at the children's birth dates it seemed likely that he was somewhere in Scotland for the 1861 and 1871 censuses, even if not at home with the family, but seeing that the last child was born in 1880 I thought it might be worth looking for him south of the border in 1881.
I found what would seem to be a very close match, even if not a very welcome one!
1881 Census Hampshire
RG11/1148 - Reg Dist Portsea Island - Sub Reg Dist Portsea Town
Enum Dist Haibonoit Prison, Portsmouth - Folio 100 - Page 41
James McCormack - Head - Married - 46 - Hawker - born Ireland
Unusually, the entries were not listed as 'prisoner' or 'inmate' - all were given either as 'Head' or 'Son'. The fact that this James is listed as married fits with a family back in Scotland and the age and occupation seem spot on. There were 41 pages of names with 25 names to a page - James was the last but one entry on the last page - so around 1000 prisoners. The birthplaces were from all over the place, including Ireland and Scotland. The prison would have been one of the prison hulks moored in the harbour. I did a Google search on Haibonoit but it only brings up this link to the Ancestry website which makes me think it might have been mistranscribed. It shouldn't be too difficult to find out more about these prison ships as there were many of them in the Portsmouth harbour. One website http://www.nmm.ac.uk/mag/pages/mnuExplo ... D=BHC1924- gives pictures and the following description:
A row of prison hulks in Portsmouth Harbour is shown on the left of the picture. These hulks were ships which were no longer seaworthy and commonly had their masts reduced or removed. They were introduced in the early 1770s, when an attempt was made to alleviate the pressure on prisons and they served as a cheap alternative to building more prisons on land. They were first used on the Thames, but Portsmouth soon had some moored in Langstone and Portsmouth Harbours, together with a hospital ship. The conditions on board the hulks were unheatlhy and overcrowded, with little or no ventilation since the ports on the landward side were boarded over as a deterrent against escape. The skyline of Portsmouth is visible in the distance to the left, together with a variety of shipping at anchor. A ship in full sail is moving towards the viewer and in the foreground is a row of sandbanks,with several figures shown on the largest bank on the right.
Armed with this 1881 info I went back to the 1851 census and found what I think must be the same James as one of the lodgers I had found earlier:
1851 Census Yorkshire
HO107/2308 - Reg Dist Bradford - Sub Reg Dist Bradford West End
Enum Dist 12 - Folio 222 - Page 26
Sched 70
3 Goit Side, Bradford (the next entry is 7 Brick Lane)
James McCormick - Lodger - Un - 16 - Hawker Hardware - born Ireland
Mary McCormick - Lodger - Un - 14 - Spinner - Spinner - born Ireland
Peter Faringdon - Lodger - Mar - 38 - Hawker - born Ireland
Mary Faringdon Lodger - 28 - born Ireland
These four seem to be separate to the main household as they are given under a separate schedule number (70) to the rest of the household (69) but none of the four is listed as head of the household so I think the separate schedule is perhaps a mistake. But amongst the lodgers listed as part of the first schedule at this address is another Mary McCormick, married, aged 38, washerwoman, born Ireland. She could be the mother of the two younger McCormicks though there are other lodgers listed between her entry and that of the younger two. There are several other lodgers in the house, all born Ireland, and the Head of the household is Bridget Brannan, aged 37, a widow, born Ireland, with her children, born Ireland/Bradford.
Don't know if these two entries refer to your James but they do seem to fit rather well.
Mary
TD