Labouring.....

[JimM]

I have a family on the 1851 census living in Stoneykirk (AnneM has also got a share in this lot)

The father is an "Ag Lab" (agricultural labourer) as is the eldest son...
The two younger sons are "Farm Labourers"

What is the difference?

Jim (a townie)

[LesleyB]

Hi Jim
I don't know the answer to this one, sorry. My only initial thought was that maybe Farm Labourers were employed by a particular farm and "belonged" there in a semi-permanent employment sort of way - maybe a relative owned the farm for example...and maybe Ag Labs were a bit more mobile? ....But I'm clutching at straws here!!

Here (a page referring to English Farm labourers) it says

Farm labourers: Farm labourers started their working life as children and were expected to assist wherever possible. When experienced and working full time the labourer would be able to turn his hand to a wide range of tasks - seed sowing, hoeing and weeding, mowing, spreading dung, threshing after the harvest and hedging and ditching during the winter months. The farm labourer, therefore, had to be very versatile. He also needed to be fit and strong as the tools he used were generally heavy and the jobs tiring

I wonder if this suggests the term "Farm Labourer" was a more skilled job then a general "Ag Lab"? But that doesn't seem to agrree with your census entry!

And this page from the 1881 census throws it all up in the air again:
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/ ... y1881.html
William DAVIES W 55 M Inmate Farm Labourer (Ag Lab) Ledbury, Hereford

And in this 1851 page there are Ag Labs and Farm Labourers:
http://www.oldplace.free-online.co.uk/hi1851.htm

I did come across a book called "Farm Servants and Labour in Lowland Scotland 1770-1914". T Devine. I wonder if this holds the answer?

I'm none the wiser! Sorry
Best wishes
Lesley

[DavidWW]

Same Household Hmmmmm........

I find it difficult to imagine that the list of allowable occupations was different from that allowed to the enumerator in 1841, - see the tab here, - but wha kens, - that really needs to be checked out first ...........

David

[LesleyB]

Just found what looks like a very interesting thesis - 166 pages of it, :
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/obj/s4/ ... Q27531.pdf
SERVANTS' LIVES: YOUTH IN LOWLAND SCOTLAND, 1560-1650
It takes a while to download, even with broadband....

though its a bit too early for your 1851 query!

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Just found another household on the web (in 1861) where both occupations are given, in the same combination as yours - father is Ag. Lab, son is Farm Lab :
http://www.oldplace.free-online.co.uk/hi1861.htm
Parish of Rotherfield Greys, Oxon
50 Witheridge Hill
John Slade Head Married 44 M Agricultural Labourer
Emily Slade Wife Married 37 F Wife
John Slade Son 12 M Farm Labourer, Plough Boy
Sarah Slade Daughter 10 F Scholar
Emily Slade Daughter 9 F Scholar
Richard Slade Son 6 M Scholar
Ann Slade Daughter 4 F Daughter
Fanny Slade Daughter 2 F Daughter

I also discovered on this page that "A Pimp Maker (No 24) was a maker of firewood bundles."

A web page:
www.helmdon.com/trail/tier1/census_article.htm
click on "History Resouces" states:

"The occupations are listed as the enumerator of the time recorded them. In the later years both 'Ag.Lab' (Agricultural Labourer) and 'Farm Labourer' appear but even the Public Record Office is unable to suggest a difference between the two. There is however a distinction between 'Farm Labourer'; and 'Farm Servant' in that a farm servant was hired on a yearly basis to work on the land and live with the farmer's family. In Helmdon the farm servants were aged between 13 and 21. Agricultural Labourers and Farm Labourers were usually married men employed on either a regular or a casual basis rather than hired for a year and they lived with their families. The 'Farm Boys' mentioned in the 1851 returns were from 6-13 years old and lived at home with their parents, often Agricultural Labourers."

But there must have been as difference for an enumerator to use both descriptions for the same household...?

There is another page within that site with a summary of occupations for that area with numbers given for each year. What is interesting about this is that in 1841 there were 61 Ag Labs and 0 Farm Labourers, but in 1851 there were 0 Ag Labs and 93 Farm Labourers, which almost suggests that what were called Ag Labs in 41 were maybe Farm Labourers in 51? I wonder if the terminology had changed and maybe some enumerators had problems remembering that and alternated between both terms?

OK - last attempt!!
This web site (1871 census)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com ... _facts.htm
suggests the difference thus:

The difference between the farm labourer or farm servant and agricultural labourer appears that the farm labourer or servant is generally young, unmarried and living within the farmer’s household. The agricultural labourer is living in independent households.

an answer - of sorts!!
Best wishes
Lesley

[JimM]

Hi Lesley
Thanks for the replies... quite a lot of info =D>

I was wondering if the farm labourer did general work around the farm whereas the agricultural labourer only worked the land k .....the father was a "ploughman" on his DC

There was also a daughter in the family ... working as a farm servant

Jim

[LesleyB]

Hi Jim

There was also a daughter in the family ... working as a farm servant

I saw lots of stuff about farm servants on my travels, but ignored it all as I trying to keep focussed on Farm Labourers and Ag labs!!

I'm sure an evening spent web surfing will give you some enlightening answers!! Or maybe put this book on your Christmas list - looks like just the thing to keep you amused for hours (272 pages)!
Farm Servants and Labour in Lowland Scotland, 1770 to 1914
T.M. Devine (Editor)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 09-5988647

best wishes
Lesley