deano I was just checking the Robert Wharrie marriages about 1868 that I had searched for before. The only one I found is obviouly the same Robert that is the son on the 1841 and 1851 census that you mentioned.
Marriage 1867 Nov of Robert Wharrie age 33 son of Robert and Margaret Clark to Margaret Taylor widow of Thomas Craig. This Robert Wharrie is a ship carpenter.
The Robert Wharrie I am looking for also was a ship carpenter but he was supposed to have married Mary Ann Hunter in 1868.
Hmm.
If only I could find them on the 1871 census. They were supposed to have a son John in 1872 or 1873. Maybe this John was a son of Margaret Taylor from her marriage to Thomas Craig and maybe the above Margaret who married Robert in 1867 died and Robert moved in with Mary Ann Hunter and when he got to Australia they claimed they were married. Getting complicated.
Missing Wharries
Moderator: Global Moderators
-
JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
Hi dollard
My guess is this would be that Robert's wife Margaret Wharrie in 1871.......enumerated all alone.......
Name: Margaret Wharrie
Age: 34
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Stevenston, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 576/1
Registration district: Old Ardrossan
Civil parish: Ardrossan
Town: Saltcoats
County: Ayrshire
Address: 31 Hamilton St
Occupation: Hanpenten Wife (probably should be Carpenter's wife?)
Best wishes
Jean
My guess is this would be that Robert's wife Margaret Wharrie in 1871.......enumerated all alone.......
Name: Margaret Wharrie
Age: 34
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Stevenston, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 576/1
Registration district: Old Ardrossan
Civil parish: Ardrossan
Town: Saltcoats
County: Ayrshire
Address: 31 Hamilton St
Occupation: Hanpenten Wife (probably should be Carpenter's wife?)
Best wishes
Jean
-
dollard
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:08 am
- Location: British Columbia
Thanks JustJean that must be the Margaret that married Robert Wharrie in 1867. I looked at the image and it is carpenter's wife. As he was a ship's carpenter I wonder if he might have been out to sea when the census was taken. But I still don't know if this is my Robert Wharrie. I can't see any way of sorting it out.
On the 1881 census at Ancestry there is a Margaret Wharrie born about 1839 at Saltcoats, Ayshire living at Partick, Lanarkshire, servant to a family. I can't find her on the census at SP to see if she is married. If so maybe she was left behind when Robert went off to Australia.
On the 1881 census at Ancestry there is a Margaret Wharrie born about 1839 at Saltcoats, Ayshire living at Partick, Lanarkshire, servant to a family. I can't find her on the census at SP to see if she is married. If so maybe she was left behind when Robert went off to Australia.
-
Currie
- Posts: 3924
- Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
- Location: Australia
-
nelmit
- Posts: 4002
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
- Location: Scotland
Yes she is married according to the 1881 disc-dollard wrote:Thanks JustJean that must be the Margaret that married Robert Wharrie in 1867. I looked at the image and it is carpenter's wife. As he was a ship's carpenter I wonder if he might have been out to sea when the census was taken. But I still don't know if this is my Robert Wharrie. I can't see any way of sorting it out.
On the 1881 census at Ancestry there is a Margaret Wharrie born about 1839 at Saltcoats, Ayshire living at Partick, Lanarkshire, servant to a family. I can't find her on the census at SP to see if she is married. If so maybe she was left behind when Robert went off to Australia.
Margt. WHARRIE M 42 F Saltcoats, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servt
Occ: Cook Domestic Servt
Regards,
Annette M
-
dollard
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:08 am
- Location: British Columbia
-
JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
Hi dollard
Yes there is no sign of a marriage in 1868....or any other year either. I've looked around and have to admit this one isn't yet provable one way or another....BUT.....if we're allowed to speculate....here's what I'd probably conclude.....
1. Very likely this is your Robert Wharrie. Name matches....age matches...occupation matches...birthplace matches. Not proven though.
2. Very likely this Robert Wharrie was not legally divorced from Margaret Craig mn Taylor. There is no notation on the original MC. Also Margaret seems to think she is married both in 1871 and 1881 and still uses the surname Wharrie. Not proven though.
3. If this Robert Wharrie married again it would have been a situation of bigamy. Knowing this he may have opted for an irregular marriage and they just never had it recorded. An irregular marriage would have been perfectly legal even if it never were registered....but NOT perfectly legal if in fact Robert was still legally wed to another woman. That being the case Robert and Mary Ann may have simply stated they were married. No one would have required proof of their marriage in order to register the birth of a child or their own death.
4. There are a couple of John Hunter births in Glasgow in the right time frame that are illegitimate to a mother named Mary.....but none on the exact date you have provided. There's no John Wharries that fit either. Births just like marriages were required to be recorded....but that doesn't mean that all of them were!!
The real question I have at this point....what the heck happend to Margaret Wharrie mn Taylor formerly Craig?????? I don't find her death and don't find another marriage. Is she finally reunited with Robert Wharrie? Did she take up with another man and pretend to be married to him? Did she leave the country? I've been looking on the later census records but so far...no luck under any name!
Is it possible there are any more clues to be gained from Australian records? Did Mary Ann and Robert use a naming pattern or middle name for one of their children? Can Mary Ann be traced to her parents and birth in Ayrshire? Did either of them ever claim to have siblings?
Conclusion? Still very much a mystery.
Best wishes
Jean
Yes there is no sign of a marriage in 1868....or any other year either. I've looked around and have to admit this one isn't yet provable one way or another....BUT.....if we're allowed to speculate....here's what I'd probably conclude.....
1. Very likely this is your Robert Wharrie. Name matches....age matches...occupation matches...birthplace matches. Not proven though.
2. Very likely this Robert Wharrie was not legally divorced from Margaret Craig mn Taylor. There is no notation on the original MC. Also Margaret seems to think she is married both in 1871 and 1881 and still uses the surname Wharrie. Not proven though.
3. If this Robert Wharrie married again it would have been a situation of bigamy. Knowing this he may have opted for an irregular marriage and they just never had it recorded. An irregular marriage would have been perfectly legal even if it never were registered....but NOT perfectly legal if in fact Robert was still legally wed to another woman. That being the case Robert and Mary Ann may have simply stated they were married. No one would have required proof of their marriage in order to register the birth of a child or their own death.
4. There are a couple of John Hunter births in Glasgow in the right time frame that are illegitimate to a mother named Mary.....but none on the exact date you have provided. There's no John Wharries that fit either. Births just like marriages were required to be recorded....but that doesn't mean that all of them were!!
The real question I have at this point....what the heck happend to Margaret Wharrie mn Taylor formerly Craig?????? I don't find her death and don't find another marriage. Is she finally reunited with Robert Wharrie? Did she take up with another man and pretend to be married to him? Did she leave the country? I've been looking on the later census records but so far...no luck under any name!
Is it possible there are any more clues to be gained from Australian records? Did Mary Ann and Robert use a naming pattern or middle name for one of their children? Can Mary Ann be traced to her parents and birth in Ayrshire? Did either of them ever claim to have siblings?
Conclusion? Still very much a mystery.
Best wishes
Jean
-
dollard
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:08 am
- Location: British Columbia
Thanks JustJean. Points 1-3 seem reasonable.
4. The John born about 1872 that I am tying to find could also have been born with the surname Craig. There are 26 born in Glasgow 1872-74. Too many $ to check each one. I would guess that day and month of birth more likely right than the year. How did you check the exact date when you were looking? I haven't been able to find Margaret Wharrie after 1881 either.
As to more clues from Australian records Robert Wharrie and Mary Ann Hunter had a daughter Agnes in 1877. I will check to see if Robert or Mary Ann had siblings and to see if I can trace Mary Anne Hunter's ancestry.
4. The John born about 1872 that I am tying to find could also have been born with the surname Craig. There are 26 born in Glasgow 1872-74. Too many $ to check each one. I would guess that day and month of birth more likely right than the year. How did you check the exact date when you were looking? I haven't been able to find Margaret Wharrie after 1881 either.
As to more clues from Australian records Robert Wharrie and Mary Ann Hunter had a daughter Agnes in 1877. I will check to see if Robert or Mary Ann had siblings and to see if I can trace Mary Anne Hunter's ancestry.
-
JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
Hi dollard
I wish there were a magical way to search by exact date of birth but alas...the best method after consulting the IGI of course for anything occuring up to 1875 and of course not finding any likely suspects.....I bought the search page of John Hunter 1872 births like so...
You searched for: Surname: "HUNTER"; Use Soundex: Off; Forename: "JOHN*"; Sex: "Male"; Year From: 1872; Year To: 1872; County: LANARK;
and then out of the 16 I opted to view a handful of those which had rather large entry numbers which would indicate a late in the year (possibly October) birth. These two were my first two choices with numbers of 908 and 2253.....and now that I've revisited them I see that I led you astray. (Sorry
) These were the two I had in mind when I stated they were illegitmate to a mother named Mary. WRONG...mother was Jessie....and I failed to mention they happen to be the same birth recorded twice!!! The birth was in October though so my hunch worked part of the time....just that it doesn't look possible to be the one you are seeking so it's really back to the drawing board.
No Year Surname Forename Sex District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1872 HUNTER JOHN M BLYTHSWOOD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/06 0908 VIEW (PAID) ORDER
1872 HUNTER JOHN M GLASGOW CENTRAL DISTRICT GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/01 2253 VIEW (PAID) ORDER
As for veiwing records with a surname of CRAIG....I just think this is way far fetched at this point. I"ve seen no indication that Margaret gave birth to any children and that is the only link Robert has to that surname isn't it? Besides...if she had why on earth would she have let Robert take her child away with another woman? I was preferring to think that possibly Mary Ann Hunter had been married to a Mr Hunter and possibly had a son and then perhaps was widowed and she left for Australia with Robert Wharrie. Sounds nice but so far....no clues to prove that out either.
It looks nice that Robert and Mary Ann had an Agnes.....and the Robert found on the 1841 census in Ayrshire had a big sister named Agnes. Maybe we should try and track down more of this Wharrie family?
Best wishes
Jean
I wish there were a magical way to search by exact date of birth but alas...the best method after consulting the IGI of course for anything occuring up to 1875 and of course not finding any likely suspects.....I bought the search page of John Hunter 1872 births like so...
You searched for: Surname: "HUNTER"; Use Soundex: Off; Forename: "JOHN*"; Sex: "Male"; Year From: 1872; Year To: 1872; County: LANARK;
and then out of the 16 I opted to view a handful of those which had rather large entry numbers which would indicate a late in the year (possibly October) birth. These two were my first two choices with numbers of 908 and 2253.....and now that I've revisited them I see that I led you astray. (Sorry
) These were the two I had in mind when I stated they were illegitmate to a mother named Mary. WRONG...mother was Jessie....and I failed to mention they happen to be the same birth recorded twice!!! The birth was in October though so my hunch worked part of the time....just that it doesn't look possible to be the one you are seeking so it's really back to the drawing board.No Year Surname Forename Sex District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1872 HUNTER JOHN M BLYTHSWOOD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/06 0908 VIEW (PAID) ORDER
1872 HUNTER JOHN M GLASGOW CENTRAL DISTRICT GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/01 2253 VIEW (PAID) ORDER
As for veiwing records with a surname of CRAIG....I just think this is way far fetched at this point. I"ve seen no indication that Margaret gave birth to any children and that is the only link Robert has to that surname isn't it? Besides...if she had why on earth would she have let Robert take her child away with another woman? I was preferring to think that possibly Mary Ann Hunter had been married to a Mr Hunter and possibly had a son and then perhaps was widowed and she left for Australia with Robert Wharrie. Sounds nice but so far....no clues to prove that out either.
It looks nice that Robert and Mary Ann had an Agnes.....and the Robert found on the 1841 census in Ayrshire had a big sister named Agnes. Maybe we should try and track down more of this Wharrie family?
Best wishes
Jean