census help please

[Jack]

Hi Ailsa,
18/24 South Albion St. is described in the census as "Albion Street Home for Working Men".
The enumerator elsewhere describes it as a "Lodging House".

The top of the census page gives Blackfriars, together with Hutchesontown, as a Parliamentary Division.
Don't know when they "joined up" because they are on opposite sides of the River Clyde.
Glasgow, like most large towns or cities, had many boundaries changes over the years.
College, also know as Blackfriars, was a Glasgow town parish at one point.
The area covered was mainly east of the High Street...
...where the old College of Glasgow and the nearby Blackfriars Church were originally situated.
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Next a useful Poor Relief application - says exactly where in Ireland John PURCELL was born.
Hope he really did know!
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Barony Poor Relief Application. D-HEW 15/6/2. Page 755. N°326.
John PURCELL.
452 Dobbies Loan, B. 2 up right. Rent 15/- monthly. 2 apt.
Applied 11am, 21st June 1886. Visit 3pm, 22/6/86.
Born - Freshford, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland.
Age 50. Married. Shoemaker. R.C.
Married 31 Dec 1863 at Adelphi St, SS by Rev Mr Lindsay. No Lines.
Wholly disabled - Rheumatism.
Wife earns a little washing.
Parents - Philip Purcell, shoemaker & Mary Carlin? Both dead. ......[but looks like Cachin - not easy to read]
Wife - Ann Gray, 46, born near Belfast, Ireland. Protestant. Sewer.
Parents - James Gray & Ann Liggel? She dead. He residing in Rothesay. ....[surname looks like it says Liggel]
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Children, dependant.
Matilda, 15, born Rose St, SS. At home.
John, 12, born Rose St, SS. At School.
Charlotte, 10, born Rose St, SS. At School.
Margaret, 7, born 15 William St. At School.
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Children, not dependant.
Ann, 22, born Govan St, SS.
.....Marrd. to James Heron, pottery worker, in Cochranes Pottery. 2 children. Resides Castle St.
Mary, 20, born Dublin. ?....? worker. Resides somewhere in Bridgeton.
William, 18, born Dublin. General labourer. About Buchanan St. Station.
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Previously supported by own efforts. 1st Application. Settlement: Barony by Residence.
Present house (Miller) Barony - 2yrs.
Prior 15 William St, Cowc. Barony - 8 yrs.
Prior 18 Rose St. SS. Govan - 7 yrs.
Applies for Medical Relief - gave line 22/6/86.
25 Jun 1886 - Medical Relief.
-----------------------------------end
There is also a 21 Nov 1901 application for son William PURCELL, 36 (wife Margaret CRAIG).
It states that his parents...
"John Purcell, shoemaker & Ann Gray in Belfast, but cannot tell address"

Might be worth looking for them in the 1901 Irish census to see who is in the household.
Such a pity there is no 1891 Irish census to look at too.
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James HERON married Ann PURCELL, 1884, Anderston.
James KANE married Mary PURCELL, 1893, Blackfriars.
William PURCELL married Margaret CRAIG, 31 Dec 1888, St Rollox.
Francis BOYLE married Matilda PURCELL, 1889, Blythswood.
--
Jack
ps, forgot to mention -
Francis BOYLE & wife Matilda PURCELL seem to disappear from Scotland after 1891.
Unless Francis had changed his occupation by 1901 i can't see him.
Anyway i wonder who this Matilda is in 1901?
May just be coincidence, so perhaps best not to read too much into it at present.
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>1891 cens 644-6 Ed 57 p 8 (St. Rollox)
>5 Bishop St.
>James BOYLE, head, 43, Cloth lapper, b Ireland
>Jane BOYLE, daur, 13, Laundry worker, b Glasgow, LKS
>Elizabeth BOYLE, daur, 12, Scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
>William BOYLE, son, 6, Scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
>Francis BOYLE, lodger, 22, Brassfinisher, b Glasgow, LKS
>Matilda BOYLE, wife, 20, Pottery worker, b Glasgow, LKS

1901 cens Folio: 126; Ed 54 Page: 44. (Oldham)
495 Manchester Rd.
Charles SWINDELLS, head, widower, 25, Newspaper printer, b Oldham. Lancs.
Matilda BOYLE, boarder, married, 29, Housekeeper (domestic), b Glasgow, Scotland.
George SWINDELLS, brother, u/m, 21,C Card room jobber (cotton), b Oldham, Lancs.
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pps, also forgot to say -
Matilda (67) d. 30 Oct 1938, Glasgow.
Francis (69) d. 29 Nov 1938, Glasgow.
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[pumps100]

Dear Jack,

I am Ailsa's husband and when she sent me the topic link this morning I was totally gobsmacked by what you have found out. You have done a fantastic job and we are truly thankful. It is very much appreciated as we know how painstaking it can be - even more so when it's not your own family you are searching !

It is great news that we can finally pin John Purcell to an actual place in Ireland - we will make our trip to Ireland (when we tie in a connection with Ailsa's irish side) and giving us a focus will make it much more interesting and rewarding.

The poor relief does give lots of info - much more than the census - which is a pity - do you think the poor relief docs will ever go online?
John Purcell age 50 - probably only 44 as he is 25 on his marriage cert. He must have been fairly disabled with rheumatism, probably bending over shoes all day.

The parents were Phillip Purcell and Mary Cahill (quite clear on cert)- both deceased by 1863 on his (John's) marriage cert.
Anne Gray - her parents are James Gray (gentleman's butler) and Ann (looks like) Little or Liddle she also is deceased by 1863. Worn out no doubt after having all the kids!

Great to see where all the children ended up - who they married etc - we will look at them in more detail later.

John age 12 is my gt grandfather - his age seems to be all over the place! he was definitely born in 1873 but on his marriage cert to Annie Rodgers he is age 26 in 1904 when he was really 31. He died in 1928 age 55 which would be correct.

The 1901 poor house application made by William is interesting and we will have to put on our irish hat and delve into the census. There is a chance then that John and Annie Gray may have went back to Ireland to live.

There perhaps could be one further twist. My grandfather John Purcell (b. 29.01.1904) married my granny Sarah Young in Glasgow on 30.01.1924.

Sarah was born in Belfast in 6.3.1906. Family fokelore always had it that she was brought up in a catholic home in Belfast and that she was illigitimate. Yet we have seen on her birth cert the mother and father wer e named. We tried to do some research and came up with the father Robert Young in Boyd St Belfast on the Irish 1901 census. Coincidentally there also was an Annie Purcell on the same census and she was mentioned was a neighbour living a few closes/doors along -also in Boyd St.

We tried to think of a connection between Sarah (who hadn't been born then) yet went on to marry a John Purcell in Glasgow 17 years later. Maybe the connection is there somewhere - when John and Annie moved back to Belfast. Was that the same Annie?

Again Jack thanks for that we really never expected to find much more out. You and Talking Scot have came up trumps again!

Thanks again

Ian (actually John Purcell Reynolds b. 20.06.1957)

[Jack]

Hi Ian,
Thanks, and my apologies for the delay and this brief reply.
Wonky computer giving me grief...it now takes up to 3hrs to get it going...
Rather sore on the old fingers!
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Re John saying he was 26yrs, when actually 31yrs, on his marriage to Annie in 1904.
It's not uncommon for men (or women) to knock a few years off when marrying someone younger.
And deliberately increasing your age when marrying someone older isn't unknown either.
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What are the details of the 1901 Belfast census you have showing an Annie PURCELL in Boyd St.?
Is she as married? No hubby? Is her birthplace near Belfast, and around 1840?
Daurs Charlotte & Margaret could've married (or died) by 1901.

Could these two John PURCELs in Glasgow be "yours"?
Ages are near enough right. GROS has John, 62, indexed as PARCEL.
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1901 cens 644-5 Ed 48 p 3 (Blackfriars)
48 Duke St. Lodging House.
John PURCEL, lodger, marrd, 62, Shoemaker, b Ireland ........[line 7]
John PURCEL, lodger, u/m, 29, Iron works labr, b Ireland ...[line 11]
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Jack
ps, the Poor Relief name indexes may go online at some point in time.
And if they do, probably not in the very near future.
Though I rather doubt if the images ever will - cost possibly being one factor.
Even looking at the original page it's not always easy to understand what is written.
So photographed images could make reading much more difficult.
But saying that, some can be very clear indeed.
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pps, perhaps remove your d.o.b.? Just for your own security...
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