1851 Census - The Continuing Saga .....

[Linda Malpass]

David we need you on the User Group !, please do stay on ....... I just posted under General Discussion that the 9th User Group Minutes have now been posted on Scotlands People .......

Question re 1851 census, have the User Group been given the test function yet ?? I noticed in the minutes that there is some imaging problems as the census was written on blue paper with blue ink and that has caused some problems.

I do agree communication is the key to a "happy bunch" ....... even a little post here and there on Scotlands People to keep us informed goes a long way in reducing our frustration levels .......

[DavidWW]

....snipped .........

Question re 1851 census, have the User Group been given the test function yet ??

Nope

I noticed in the minutes that there are some imaging problems as the census was written on blue paper with blue ink and that has caused some problems.

....snipped .....

Aye weel, yes, but this issue had been known about for around 9 months , - a significant percentage of 1851 images will not be available as a result of GROS's judgement that customers would find them from very difficult to verging on the impossible to read .......

David

[Linda Malpass]

Aye weel, yes, but this issue had been known about for around 9 months , - a significant percentage of 1851 images will not be available as a result of GROS's judgement that customers would find them from very difficult to verging on the impossible to read .......

David

Oh Brother Why didn't they go with the 1841 census first and then sort out what to do with the 1851 census ........makes you wonder what color of paper and pen is on the 1841 census

Thanks for keeping us informed David, your NOT allowed to leave the User Group

[DavidWW]

Oh Brother Why didn't they go with the 1841 census first and then sort out what to do with the 1851 census ........makes you wonder what color of paper and pen is on the 1841 census

Awfy guid question !!, but I believe that there isn't such a problem with 1841, although it will be interesting to see how many images are less than easy to read because the ink has faded to a mid-brown, and the paper has suffered deterioration so that it's light brown, - not normally a problem when the original is viewed, but sometimes a problem with a greyscale image, which I've seen on the microfilms.

It wasn't as if the 1851 blue ink/blue paper problem was suddenly discovered just at the last minute!, or, if it was, that doesn't bear thinking about as the enumeration books have been around for over 150 years !, never mind the fact that the digitisation of the images was completed many months ago.

As it is, according to the minutes, some 13,000 1851 images, representing somewhere around 320,000 individual records will not for the moment be available.

What is not reported in the minutes but was clearly stated during the User Group meeting, is that these 13,000 pages will be redigitised in colour at some future date. Timescale?, - ask GROS !!


In my professional engineering career I have extensive project management experience, both from the outside and the inside, i.e. observing projects from the outside, well and badly run; as well as from the inside as project manager and just a member of the project team, - in
the latter case both well and badly run !! <g> (and maybe also in the former case ! <sad g>)

I can only comment from the outside and a few "inside" comments, that the release dates for new datasets on SP show every evidence of at best the lack of good project management skills, or at worst, sadly, incompetent project management, if, indeed, there was any effective project management at all.

Had I ever been involved in a project where the completion date slipped by the thick end of 3 years, I'd have expected major consequences as a result, not least the imposition of severe financial penalties, and there's more than one engineering contractor in this country and elsewhere that has learnt that lesson to the cost of their continued existence as an independent company.

There are a number of very well known and very well tested project management tools, such as critical path analysis (CPA).

Another essential part of _any_ project is the setting up of a risk register, i.e. a list of various possible adverse factors that could affect the objectives of the project, in financial, programme, completion date, and other terms.

Such a risk register is not just a list of the risks, but a method of ensuring that mitigation measures to minimise or eliminate the possible effects of the risks that are identified are discussed, investigated, and put in place, and taken into account when completion dates are set.

I'd dearly love to see the GROS 1851 census index and images project risk register, if indeed such a professional project management approach was ever adopted !

David

[Tracey]

Luckily for me i havnt had to wait as long as some for 1851 or 41 census as freecen has a lot of what i am looking for. One thing i will say for future lookers of the 1851 is that i have found a lot of my married femails indexed under their maiden name on freecen. I dont know if the search criteria will be the same on SP when it appears but for me its the first time i have found more under maiden name than married name and only one on later census on SP

Tracey

[Lizzie]

Tracy,

I wish to say once again I love Free CEN and it is indeed most useful but sadly does not record everything the census does, such as "relationships" which to me is very important at present.
I remind myself each day "We cannot have everything in this life" but it would be nice to see a census with everything we need to know on it eh?

Lizzie

[Tracey]

Hi Lizzie

The 1851 freecen does have relationship and occupation if your lucky to find who you are looking for its the 1841 that doesnt have relationship

Tracey

[AndrewP]

I wish to say once again I love Free CEN and it is indeed most useful but sadly does not record everything the census does, such as "relationships" which to me is very important at present.

The 1851 freecen does have relationship and occupation if your lucky to find who you are looking for its the 1841 that doesnt have relationship

It is not that FreeCen have not indexed the relationships in the 1841 census. Relationships were not recorded in that census. See the following webpage for information regarding the contents of an 1841 census page.

http://www.talkingscot.com/censuses/census-1841.htm

All the best,

Andew Paterson

[Lizzie]

Thank you Tracy and Andrew

Thank you, now I have it. My present major problem is I need the relationship in the 1841. I did notice the 1851 had it, but I am still waiting for Edinburgh on that one!

Meanwhile, I have the record of Mary McLennan living in Easter Inverinate age 35 who has five Macrae children living with her of whom one has to be my ggg grandmother age 7. So I will be none the wiser when the 1841 census comes from SP?

Lizzie

[AndrewP]

My present major problem is I need the relationship in the 1841. I did notice the 1851 had it, but I am still waiting for Edinburgh on that one!

A typical family group in an 1841 census may show a male and a female of similar adult age, and some children aged 20-35 years younger than the adults. You can make your best guess that they are husband wife and their children, but that census will not tell you that for sure. They could be nieces and nephews. The adults could be brother and sister. Who can tell?

Meanwhile, I have the record of Mary McLennan living in Easter Inverinate age 35 who has five Macrae children living with her of whom one has to be my ggg grandmother age 7. So I will be none the wiser when the 1841 census comes from SP?

You need other documents to help you there, such as OPR births and marriages, and the later censuses. In the 1841 census, the adult ages are usually rounded down to the nearest 5 or 10 (if the enumerator followed the instructions properly).

All the best,

Andrew Paterson