Thomas Burnside .....

[StewL]

Hi Karen

Is this him in the 1881 census his occupation seems to be vastly different but have a look at the mother in law at the end.

Dwelling: 365 Duke Street Whitehill Terrace
Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203639 GRO Ref Volume 644-3 EnumDist 35 Page 5
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas Allan BURNSIDE M 43 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Commercial Cashier (Wholesale Bookselling)
Margaret Moir BURNSIDE M 40 FGlasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Margaret Mc Gregor BURNSIDE 15 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
William BURNSIDE 11 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Coll Mc Gregor BURNSIDE 9 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Elizabeth Carswell BURNSIDE 7 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Janet BURNSIDE 3 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Jane Mc Gregor BURNSIDE 1 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Margaret MC DOUGALL M 73 F Stanley, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Mother In Law
Occ: Annuitant

This may also be another spanner in the works, sending you on a wild goose chase, but there is this Thomas Allan Burnside on BVRI

BURNSIDE, Thomas Allan Christening
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 17 Aug 1837
Birthplace: , Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Recorded in: Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Father: William BURNSIDE
Mother: Catherine Smith DONALDSON
Source: FHL Film 102921 + Dates: 1832 - 1856

This couple have about 8 children listed but didnt post them in case it is the wrong ones.

[ellenavon]

Hi Karen

Im really hooked on your puzzle - been back and fore several times looking at it!

I have tried to follow the Alexander and Margaret family you found on the 1841, as I believe they are the right family.

BUT I have trawled Ancestry censuses Scotland, and am almost certain now that they are not in Scotland in 1851. Fairly sure they have returned to Ireland.

There's also an interesting marraige on IGI:

David Barnside b.Scotland, to Mary Jane Dowd in Manhattan, New York 06 Jun 1868. Parents Alexander Burnside and Margaret McDongal

I'm away to puzzle some more.

Ellen.

[karenmcc]

Hi Stew,

Thank you so much for having a look. This however appears to be the Thomas Allan BURNSIDE and Margaret McGregor McDOUGALL that I have found the marriage for and Margaret McDOUGALL the mother in law is probably Margaret the wifes mother. I actually have my Thomas in the all the censuses from 1861 to 1891, he dies in 1893. I wonder though if this family are connected in some way, my BURNSIDES have a McGREGOR girl staying with them in one of the censuses (can't remember her name or which census of the top of my head right now)

Hi Ellen,

Thank you for the interest you are taking in my search. I had started to wonder also if maybe they had gone back to Ireland or maybe onto America. The David who marries in New York does look interesting, as my Thomas named one of his sons David as well. Hadn't thought to look on the IGI for American stuff. I usually skip the American Burnside research as everyone researching the Burnsides in America is trying to prove they are related to General Ambrose Burnside. Although I do know that one of my Thomas's sons went to America, married and had a couple of kids and left them all over there and went back to Scotland. Always wondered why he went over, but might be because he had uncles over there. I'll get out my notes on him and see if I actually have where he married.

Karen

[karenmcc]

Hi All,

I have followed up on the Peter aged 8 in the 1841 census. Have him for sure in the 1861 and 71 census and his death in 1872. His parents are named as Alexander BURNSIDE and Margaret ms McDOUGALL (both deceased). The informant is Alexander BURNSIDE ? Son.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1466

Does anyone know what the letter in front of the word son is or means? (I forget how to upload everytime I do it, so I hope I get it right)


I do think this is the right family for my Thomas in the 1841. Mayby his son didn't know about the first Alexander that died and just assumed he was the oldest and therefore named after his grandfather? I think I have found a couple more of the children from the 1841 census,(have to follow them up when I get my next lot of Crds) but not Alexander, I wonder if this is really my Thomas.

Gallery URL added - AndrewP

[Jack]

Hi Karen,
Just to give you some more work...but this isn't helping identify your GG-GF Thomas.
The parents of this Jean are Alexander BURNSIDE, weaver & Margaret McDOUGALL.
There are 2 Poor Relief applications for her - 1874 (aged 44) & 1880 (aged 50)
So Jane / Jean is as born Hamilton about 1830 - but possibly a wee bit later?
Sorry, but it may be a few weeks till i can manage to read them.
--
ROBERT YOUNG
JEAN BURNSIDE
Marriage: 16 DEC 1849, Barony, Lanark
--
I wonder who this John BURNSIDE is that Jane's visiting in 1851?
Hopefully his DC will have the correct parent details.

1841 cens (Liverpool)
Jordan? St.
Ann McAWLEY, 30, --------Not born in County
Eliz. McAWLEY, 3, -------------Born in County
Thomas McAWLEY, 1, ---------Born in County

1841 cens 622 Ed 52 p8 (Barony - Calton)
Charley's Close.
John BURNSIDE, 25, HLW Cotton, b Ireland
Maria BURNSIDE, 26, Winder Cotton, b Ireland
Alexander BURNSIDE, 5, ------------b LKS
Ann BURNSIDE, 10 mos, ----------b LKS
John HILLIS, 15, Piecer Cotton, b Ireland
--
1851 cens 644-1 Ed 29 p 15 (Glasgow - St. John)
15 Greenvale St.
John BURNSIDE, head, 35, Weaver, b Ireland
Maria BURNSIDE, wife, 38, Weaver, b Ireland
Alexr. BURNSIDE, son, 15, Waiter, b Glasgow, LKS
Margt. BURNSIDE, daur, 6, Scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
John BURNSIDE, son, 1, ------------b Glasgow, LKS
Robert YOUNG, visitor, 20, Baker, b Glasgow, LKS
Jane YOUNG, visitor's wife, 22, -------b Hamilton, LKS
Margt. YOUNG, visitor's daur, 1, --------b Glasgow, LKS
Elizth. McAULAY, sister's daur, 13, Scholar, b England
Thos. McAULAY, sister's son, 10, Scholar, b England
Joseph McAULAY, sister's son, 8, Scholar, b England
--
1861 cens 644-3 Ed 17 p 10 (Glasgow - St John)
11? Greenvale St.
John BURNSIDE, head, 45, Woolen weaver, b Ireland
Marion BURNSIDE, wife, 49, ----------------b Ireland
Margaret BURNSIDE, daur, 15, -----------b Glasgow, LKS
John BURNSIDE, son, 11, ---------------b Glasgow, LKS

1861 cens 644-4 Ed 47 p 11 (Glasgow - St John)
332 Gallowgate.
Robt. YOUNG, head, 30, Baker, b Glasgow, LKS
Jane YOUNG, wife, 29, ------------b Glasgow, LKS ..[but shd be born Hamilton?]
Margret YOUNG, daur, 10, Scholar, b Glasgow.
Robt. YOUNG, son, 5, ---------------b Glasgow.
William YOUNG, son, 5 mos, -------b Glasgow.
=======
Here's Peter BURNSIDE's "wife" Mary GRAHAM's application.
Says Peter was born in Hamilton, but doesn't mention his parents.
-------
Glasgow Poor Relief Application. 10 / 2 / 17. Page 215. No. 60986.
Applied - 10.40 am, 12 April 1858.
Mary Graham Burnside.
15 Marlborough St. Back land, 1 up & left door.
Born - Bishop St, Anderston.
Inspector's visit - 11.30 am, 13 April 1858.
Condition - Deserted. Age 30. Housewife.
Partially disabled - Ill health & children.
Dependants -
Alexander, 2 yrs, born in Bishop St.
Margaret, 3 mos, born in Marlborough St.
Other Information -
The putative father of the children (they were not married) Peter Burnside, shoemaker
born in Hamilton left her about 8 days since after cohabiting with her about 3 yrs.
Her father James Graham, labourer & mother Margaret McIsaac
were in Bishop Street at the time of her birth.
The latter died there about 15 yrs ago.
The former is still alive & resides at 17 Bishop St. to whom reference is made.
First Application: Settlement - Barony.
Remarks -
There were a Legacy of £12.00 left amongst this family.
The father being life-rented in the interest.
The principal cannot be touched till his death.
He does not assist the family in any way although he draws the interest weekly. 18/-
Asst. Inspector - John Fraser Junr.
Settlement -
In present house - Glasgow Parish - 1yr 1mo.
Prior 17 Bishop St - Barony Parish - 4 mos.
Prior Stirling - Stirling Parish - 7 mos.
Prior 17 Bishop St - Barony Parish - 11mos.
Prior to marriage she was a servant in London, Newcastle, Edinburgh,
Paisley, Glasgow & suburbs.
Rather unsettled since death of her mother.
Prior in Bishop St. since birth.
12 April 1858 - Provisional? to House. Left House 16/4/58. [Left House scored thru in pencil]
Notice 4/292 on 13 April 1858.
84966. 10.15 am, 7 July 1873. Mary Graham McCulloch or Burnside reapplies from
East Russell St. Model and was refused by Indoor Asst. Inspector on the ground that son states
he has £231 belonging to his mother lying in The National Security Savings Bank in his name.
-------end
The Legacy amount looked to be written as £12.00. But possibly it's actually £1200?
Only because i don't think £12 would yield interest of 18/- weekly?, and Mary's son was holding £231 for her.
--
Jack

[karenmcc]

Thank you so much Jack.OX

Thought I had found Jean/Jane, and followed her through to the 1871 census (my local library has free access to ancestry), then realized it was the wrong one.

I wonder if this family are connected to Brian's (aka Rockford), I'm sure he has Youngs in his side. Will have to look up his posts after I finish here.

I have managed to follow James from the 1841. He marries first Margaret EDGAR in 1846, then Elizabeth DOW in 1864. I have him at various address in the Calton area from 1851 to 1881. So when I get my CRDS will be looking for his death between 1881 - 1891. At least, two of his children, James and Dugald ended up in USA.

Have tried to follow up on the David BARNSIDE that Ellen found marring in NY. He appears to have married Elizabeth HUGHES in Scotland, has three kids there, immigrates to USA c1860, has a couple more kids. Elizabeth must die as he then marries Mary Jane DOWD. Have him in 1870(New York aged 37 shoemaker) and 1880(Lynn, Essex, Massachusetts aged 48 Shoefactory) USA census.

Peter and Mary seem to have had a very troubled relationship. She is living back with him in the 1861, but as a Serv. Young Margarets birth is registered as Burnside with Peter obviously signing his name. She must have died as she is not on the 1861. Also have them on the 1871, in Calton, Peter 37, Mary 43 and Alexander 15.

Will definately look for Johns Death when I get my crds.

Hope Jeans Poor relief application has some leads on the parents. Will Keep my fingers crossed.

Again, thank you so much Jack.

Karen

[Rockford]

Hi Karen

I've been lurking on this thread for the past wee while in case there was a connection!

You're right that I have a Burnside/Young marriage in my family but this took place about 40 years after the censuses Jack has found. In c1860, my Burnsides were in Londonderry, Ireland as my great, great grandparents married there in 1859. I think that the Burnsides may have come from Scotland at some point, given the name and their religious convictions, but I don't know when!

My Youngs seem to come from Lanarkshire (Cambusnethan/Dalziel), but my great great grandfather seems to have been a bit uneasy with his parentage, as he never gave the same set (or indeed a full set) of parents twice - I haven't been able to find him before his first marriage in 1872.

I'll keep chipping away at it though - we might be related yet!!

Best wishes

Brian

[karenmcc]

Hi again Brian,

I looked back through your posts to try to work out if anything fit in and am more confussed than ever now:)

Have you managed to find anything more on your John YOUNG bc1854. Maybe his parents never married? Did you try finding him on previous census with surname ALLEN? or perhaps, if this were the case, mum could have remarried and he could be hiding under a stepfathers name.

Will definately be looking into the John BURNSIDE family, that the YOUNGS are boarding with in the 1851.

Karen

[karenmcc]

Hi Jack,

I thought I recognised that 1851 address. James (from the 1841) is living at 31 Greenvale st with wife and son John,3 in the 1851 census. I think I have this John transcribed as BURMSIDE on the 1871 living down the road from Peter.

Have had another look on Freecen too. I found John from the 1841 census who was living at Charley's Close. The street name is Canning St. At 59 Canning St in the 1841 census is Mathew BURNSIDE 58 Cotton HLW b Ireland and Wife Elizabeth 50 b ire. The plot thickens.

Karen

PS. Don't worry about how long it takes to get the Poorlaw application. I'm happy that anyone is getting it for me at all

[karenmcc]

Hi All,

Have found the death of John that the YOUNGs were visiting. He died 1871 in Bridgeton, married to Maria MacAULAY. His age is given as 51. Parent given as Alexander BURNSIDE cotton weaver, deceased and Jane ms KENNEDY, deceased.

It's just after 11 here and I'm too tired to think anymore, but I'm not quite sure where this one leaves me.

Karen