Help with 1851 census .....

[skaville]

Hi Jack,
Thanks for that info. If that 1861 info has Mary Cassey and her brother James, sister Elizabeth and her mum all living at the same address then my Mary on my tree is wrong(after 5 years of having it!!) Will definately have to work out when my Mary died so that should give my her parents names. Its a pity Mary & Peter Cameron married 2 years before certificates were issued.
Mark

[Tracey]

Hi Mark

You have my sympathies, I also have a John Casey - shoemaker born in Ireland who just to confuse things further married two Ann's For a good few years i only looked on SP for them but as it happens they were on the English census all along and it wasnt until 1891 i find them in Glasgow and in between all that they have from 1857 onwards - 2 children in Glasgow, 1 in Ipswich, 1 in Preston, then another in Ipswich, then another in Preston, 1 in Rochdale, next one in Ireland, last two in Chorley,.......................must have been a busy shoemaker anyway if you havnt already it might be worth a look on the English census.

It took me a looooong time to get a start on these ones and i am still struggling with them.

Good luck

[Jack]

Hi again Mark,
The old memory is really going - on 31st July i'd found Mary CAMERON m/s CASEY's DC....
But had put it to one side for some reason; i'm dashed if i can remember why.
Just came across it in a Drafts folder that i'd made for your "Casey"s.
Here are the main details.
--
DC 1898. 644-6. 773 (St. Rollox)
Mary CAMERON (63), pauper, widow of Peter CAMERON, tinsmith journeyman.
Died - 24 JUN 1898 at City Poorhouse, Glasgow (usual res: 116 Drygate)
pas - John CASEY (dcd) mason's labourer & Sarah m/s HAWTHORN (dcd)
cause - pthisis pulmonalis.
Informant - Peter CAMERON, son, 125 Claythorn St.
--
Jack

[skaville]

Hi Jack,
It looks like my Mary is the 1 you have found and not the 1 with Alley Cassey. Will look up that death cert and alter my tree. At least i will have new relatives to look for with Marys siblings!! And i can send off for a poorhouse record(which im doing today but for Keatings in Glasgow!!).Thanks agaian,
Mark

[skaville]

Hi Tracey,
Now it looks like your John Casey isnt mine, i printed off the 1851 with John, Mary & Alley on it and Johns death cert. Do you have them at all?
Mark

[Tracey]

Hi Mark

Our two Johns are not linked (that i know of) - my post was just a thought about looking at the census in England and the frustration of having an ancestor with a common name and profession to boot, no pun intended !.

[skaville]

HA HA. I presume you have copies of the census and death cert thanks to Scotlands Peoples facilities. They are no good to me now. I have to go searching for the others now!!
Mark

[Jack]

Hi Mark,
Thought i'd better send these on before i forget.
But i think you've already got all of this on your CAMERONs?
-----
1871 census 644-2 Ed 57 p 19 (High Church) [very poor page to read]
51 Burnside St. ?
Peter CAMERON, head, marr, 35, tinsmith, b Stirling, __
Mary CASEY, wife, marr, 33, winder, b Glasgow, LKS [sic]
Sarah CAMERON, daur, 17, winder, b Glasgow, LKS
Mary? CAMERON, daur, 13, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Eliz.? CAMERON, daur, 8, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Duncan CAMERON, son, 3, -------b Glasgow, LKS
Wm. CAMERON, son, 6, --------b Glasgow, LKS [Wm. was last name on list]
+
1871 census 644-2 (Springburn)
Glasgow Reformatory Institution & Boys House of Refuge
Peter CAMERON, youthful offender, 14, joiner, b Glasgow, LKS [is this young Peter?....]
----
1881 census: 644-5 Ed 43 p 7 (Blackfriars)
3 Saracen Lane.
Peter CAMERON M, 47 M NK, Stirling, Rel: Head Occ: Tincase Maker
Mary C. CAMERON, M 45 F Ireland Rel: Wife Occ: Winder
Sarah CAMERON, U 27 F Glasgow, Lanark, Rel: Daughter Occ: Serv
Duncan CAMERON, U 13 M Glasgow, Lanark, Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
Alexander CAMERON, U 8 M Glasgow, Lanark, Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
Robert CAMERON, U 3 M Glasgow, Lanark, Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
----
1891 census 644-3 Ed 29 p 3 (Dennistoun)
6 Parkhouse Lane.
Mary CAMERON, head, 54, -------b Glasgow, LKS [sic]
Peter CAMERON, son, 35, joiner, b Glasgow, LKS
Alexr. CAMERON, son, 17, message boy, b Glasgow, LKS
Robert CAMERON, son, 12, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
==========================================
These look like Mary CASEY's relatives; her mother being Sarah HAWTHORN (b. ca.1800, Ireland).
Seems Hawthorn(e) has been spelled in various ways, eg Henthorn, Hanthorn, Hathorn etc.
There is this very short Poor Relief application for Sarah.
The address of 13 Bell St. is where the Casey family were in 1851.
--
Glasgow. 10/1/6. Page 362. N° 37765. 29 March 1854.
Sarah HENTHORN CASEY, a labourer, 52yrs, born in Ireland.
13 Bell St. Backland, up 2 stairs, right door.
Applies for a coffin & ground, husd. having died.
Husd. John CASY, 60yrs, born in Ireland.
Family;
John 30, married, Jas. 28, with mother, Wm. 22 married, Mary 19, married, Elizth. 8, at home.
In present house 7 yrs.
Says her husd. applied 5½ yrs ago for a coffin also.
0/- Glasg__
29? / 3/ 54. Granted Coffin & Ground.
--
Mary CAMERON m/s CASEY's usual address on her 1898 DC was 116 Drygate, Glasgow.
And this is where *George HAWTHORNE was living in 1901.
So if i've got it right; Mary Casey & *George Hawthorn could well be 1st cousins.

The DCs of Sarah, Thomas, John, and Mary might show them as being siblings.
(i.e. all having the same parents)
John is the father of *George Hawthorn (b. 31 Dec 1858 Glasgow)
And who i wonder are Matthew & Hannah LYNN? on the 1851 census?
Is Hannah also a Hawthorn?
--
1851 census 644-1 (563) Ed 22 p 14 (St. John)
758 Gallowgate.
Thos. HANTHORN, head, 41, fireman in mill, b Ireland
John HANTHORN, brother, 36, lab. in foundry, b Ireland
Lavinia HANTHORN, sis-in-law, 23, seamstress, b Ireland
Mary HANTHORN, sister, 30, ------------------b Ireland
Matilda HANTHORN, daur, 11, scholar, b Ireland

1851 census 622 (574) Ed 11 p 19 (Milton)
31 Clyde St.
Matthew LYNN?, head, marr, 38, labourer, b Ireland [difficult to be certain on the surname]
Hannah LYNN?, wife, 45, dress maker, b Ireland
Helen LYNN?, daur, 13, cap maker, b Ireland
Hannah HAWTHORN, niece, 7, scholar, b Ireland
Helen CORRAN? visitor, widow, 34, shirt maker, b Ireland
Andrew CORRAN? visitor, 9, ----------------------b Ireland
Robert BUCHANAN, visitor, 17, labourer, b Ireland
William HARRIS, visitor, 21, labourer, b Ireland
James WHITE, visitor, 20, labourer, b Ireland
[could niece Hannah (7) be the 16yr old daur of Thomas Hawthorn on the 1861 census?]
--
1861 census 644-2 Ed 97 p 11 (St. John)
29 East Neilson St.
Thomas HAWTHORN, head, 57, labour, b Ireland
Mary HAWTHORN, sister, 38, house keeper, b Ireland
Matilda HAWTHORN, daur, 21, cotton weaver, b Ireland
Hannah HAWTHORN, daur, 16, cotton weaver, b Ireland
Jackson RICHARDSON, boarder, 23, labourer, b Ireland

1861 census 644-2 Ed 101 p 8 (High Church)
27 Glen Place.
John HATHORN, head, 48, carter, b Ireland
Livinia HATHORN, wife, 32, ---------b Ireland
Margaret HATHORN, daur, 8, ------b Glasgow
John HATHORN, son, 7, -------------b Glasgow
Mary HATHORN, daur, 5, -----------b Glasgow
*George HATHORN, son, 2, -------b Glasgow
--
1871 census 644-4 Ed 79 p 16 (Calton)
9 Union St........ [with a John MacDonald, carter & family]
*George HAWTHORNE, boarder, 13, -------------b Glasgow, LKS
--
1881 census 644-5 Ed 14 p 2 (Blackfriars)
11 Duke St....... [with a Paul Boyle, carter & family + very many others]
*George HAWTHORN, boarder, 26, labourer, b Glasgow, LKS
--
1891 census 644-5 Ed 35 pp 6-7 (Blackfriars)
30 Duke St.
*George HAWTHORN, head, 30, general carter, b Glasgow, LKS
Catherine, HAWTHORN, wife, 25, ---------------b Glasgow, LKS
George HAWTHORN, son, 6, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Elizabeth HAWTHORN, daur, 3, --------------b Glasgow, LKS
John HARVEY, boarder, 20, carter unemployed, b Glasgow, LKS
--
1901 census 644-5 Ed 8 p 2 (Blackfriars)
116 Drygate ..................... [given as the usual address of Mary CASEY on her 1898 DC]
*George HAWTHORNE, head, 37, carter, b Glasgow, LKS
Kate HAWTHORNE, wife, 34?, -----------------b Glasgow, LKS
George HAWTHORNE, son, 15, carters trace boy, b Glasgow, LKS
Jane HAWTHORNE, daur, 8, ------------------------b Glasgow, LKS
William HAWTHORNE, son, 5, -------------------b Glasgow, LKS
Christina HAWTHORNE, daur, 3, -------------b Glasgow, LKS
Robina HAWTHORNE, daur, 3 mos, ------b Glasgow, LKS
====
I have to ask; how did you end up with the wrong family on your tree?
Can you now definitely confirm to yourself that Peter Cameron & Mary Casey are your ancestors?
i.e. proof starting from yourself backwards to them?
Which is always the best if it can be done!
Jack

[skaville]

Hi Jack,
Thanks for finding all that info. Will have to look into it all thoroughly. I think we ended up with the wrong Caseys as we could only find 1 John with a daughter Mary at first. Then we found the others with a mother Sarah too. I think they are the right ones as my John Casey is a labourer and the other one was a shoemaker.
Thats interesting finding that Peter as a young offender. Wonder if there are any records for that.
Mark

[skaville]

Hi Jack,
I think i may have found another connection. Ive been in touch with a lady who has an Archibald Armstrong in her tree. His daughter married 1 of my Camerons. Ive been told that Archibald(cIreland1845) left Scotland around 1890. I think he stayed until at least 1901(according to Ancestry). He was a Hatter but i believe he changed jobs to a shoemaker). Archibalds wife was Elizabeth Thomson(cEngland1845). In 1881 in Glasgow Archibald is with his brother William. Elizabeth at home with the kids. In 1891 & 1901 Archibald is in New Rd(if its the same chap). In 1901 William has a daughter with him with the surname Hawthorn!! And theres a Mcgill there too!! I cannot find William(to confirm his father) or Archibalds deaths. There father was Hugh, mothers surname Rae. The lady im in touch with says Archibald went to the States and possibly became a Mayor somewhere. Does this make sense?