1851 Census - The Continuing Saga .....

[DavidWW]

The 1851 census has been released for testing to the User Group members. It's not really fully ready yet in terms of county and RD info, but at least lets us have a look at the quality of the images, and, as far as is possible, the quality of the indexing.

David

David..any idea on how long the testing will take? (February ends in 9 days!!)

Paul

Ah well.... February is nearly over

My bet is March ..... probably around the "Ides"

Jim

Which then raises the question of whether the 1841 release date will be maintained as March ...................

David

[Keatley]

The 1851 census has been released for testing to the User Group members. It's not really fully ready yet in terms of county and RD info, but at least lets us have a look at the quality of the images, and, as far as is possible, the quality of the indexing.

David

David..any idea on how long the testing will take? (February ends in 9 days!!)

Paul

Ah well.... February is nearly over

My bet is March ..... probably around the "Ides"

Jim

Do you think this has got any thing to do with the delay?

From ScotlandsPeople User Group
Ninth Meeting
(12.00, 30 January 2006)

Paul reported the
problems of 1851 having been enumerated on blue paper and with blue ink which has
rendered some 13,000 images unreadable, hence a delay. He said that 1851 should be
available later during the month of February, minus the poor images which GROS and
NAS will examine with a view to providing better quality images. 1841 will follow at
some point, probably during March.

[DavidWW]

David..any idea on how long the testing will take? (February ends in 9 days!!)

Paul

Ah well.... February is nearly over

My bet is March ..... probably around the "Ides"

Jim

Do you think this has got any thing to do with the delay?

From ScotlandsPeople User Group
Ninth Meeting
(12.00, 30 January 2006)

Paul reported the
problems of 1851 having been enumerated on blue paper and with blue ink which has
rendered some 13,000 images unreadable, hence a delay. He said that 1851 should be
available later during the month of February, minus the poor images which GROS and
NAS will examine with a view to providing better quality images. 1841 will follow at
some point, probably during March.

With the delay?, - not really!, as this problem was known about years ago, and the digitisation was complete last summer, and it was known then that a proportion of the images were of very doubtful quality.

In other words, to imply at this late date that the unreadability issue was suddenly discovered and the reason for this yet further delay (now approaching 3 {that's three} years from the originally planned date ..........)

David
(for those who are not aware of the situation, a GROS ScotlandsPeople User Group member, - for the moment at least )

[Keatley]

I see February is over then!

March eh!

[JayPee]

... or is this one of those febtembuaries that has several extra days???
- JayPee

[DavidWW]

... or is this one of those febtembuaries that has several extra days???
- JayPee

As in 30 and counting !! It's a looooonnngggggg January

User Group testing has identified some problems, in particular identifying, properly describing and integrating the list of 1851 districts with the master list that already exists for other censuses (1881 apart on SP?) and BMD, - particularly for at least some of the cities and associated urban areas.

See my post of a couple of days ago, - all I'll say more on this aspect is that it's been known for decades that a different district numbering and to some extent naming system was used in 1851, particularly in the cities.

This is why (unless the situation has changed since I last used the 1851 films at The Mitchell...... Jack?) if you want to look up the same area number as in other censuses you need to know the 1851 changes or be able to find where the 1851 lookup table has been put, - it lists the 1851 equivalent dictrict number, - in order to find the correct 1851 film. Some libraries, as is also the case at NRH, have renumbered the 1851 films according to the numbering system used for the other censuses. Even then this can still lead to confusion in terms of locating the correct enumeration district.

Problems are not limited to city and large urban areas.

Right across Scotland many census districts were split into burgh and landward areas (burgh - within the boundaries of the burgh; landward - within the area known by the same name as the burgh, but outside the area of the burgh itself, - hence, BTW, the marginal annotations "B" and "L" on early BMD registers) with separate district numbers, so that there are many examples of the same district in other censuses being covered by separate district numbers in 1851, so that there are two districts each with, say, EDs 1 - 5, for the same area covered by one number in later censuses.

When scanning through an 1851 film renumbered to reflect the numbering system used in other censuses, it can be quite confusing to find, in that example, that ED 1 follows ED6

As of 2nd March there's been no feedback on any revised timescale for 1851 and 1841.

David

[wini]

David,

We are all hanging out for the 1851///1841 Census

However, I think it will be of more value if the User Group have their concerns dealt with before releasing the data.

I know I am looking forward to the release, However I am quite prepared to wait if the details are correct
AND S.P get more money from me going off on a different tack

wini

[joette]

Yes & you don't want to put novices or first timers off thinking that is the usual level of service from SP.
When they mention release dates I do what I do when meeting my niece
"Take the time you first agreed on add one hour for traffic delays,add forty minutes for her to locate phone & handbag.Divide it by three add six & mulitply by twenty,didvide it by the square root of infinty minus two billion& Bingo you have no idea when she/it will appear but you know it will be in her own sweet time(apologies to SP)

[Jack]

Hi David,
You're right, the Enumeration District numbers in cities & some larger towns in 1851 don't compare to those in other years.
Take Glasgow, there's no easy way to pinpoint a particular district using the number got from, say, the 1841 or 1861 censuses.
(The Mitchell doesn't have a book with any equivalent districts, and no one can remember them having one - i've asked!)
Easiest way is to look up the address from the 1841 or 1861 census in the 1851 Street Index.
Enumeration District area boundaries moved over the years, and the names of these areas weren't always the same either.
The bold first numbers listed below are the "Different Numbers" used in Glasgow for 1851.
--
534 - 572 (Glasgow City Parish 644-1)
573 - 606 (Barony Parish 622)
607 - 623-1 (Gorbals Parish 644-2)
623-2 (Glasgow City Parish - Maryhill 644-2)
624 (Govan Parish - Renfrewshire 646)
625 - 627A (Govan Parish - Lanarkshire 646)
627B (Govan Parish, Renfrewshire 646)
--
You'll notice Maryhill as under Glasgow City 644-2 (623-2); but this is only a part that was formerly in Barony;
the rest of Maryhill is in its usual place of Barony under 622 (604).
Govan Parish 646 is particularly confusing in 1851 - some parts were in Renfrewshire,
others in Lanarkshire, and it also had a large chunk north across the River Clyde (eg Partick).
--
The boxes holding the 1851 Glasgow films in The Mitchell are all similarly labelled like this,
644-1 (534) City, 1 - 8, St George; and so on to (540) 45 - 52, St George.
644-1 (541) City, 1 - 7, St Enoch; then (542) 8 - 14, St Enoch.
and so on to the last which were,
646 (627A) Govan, LKS, 1 - 2, Gartnavel Royal.
646 (627B) Govan, RFW, 1 - 3, [this was the Strathbungo / Polmadie / Kingston south areas]
--
For whatever reason, the new numbering system was only ever used in 1851....
Jack

[ellenavon]

Back from two weeks hols in the sun, and looking forward to the 1851...........

Oh well, maybe after the next holiday!

Still, there's a whole new chunk of parishes added to Freecen - thanks Jean for Cromdale 1851 - got my Grants!

Proud to see my own wee latest contribution added too, Abernethy & Kincardine 1841. Might get another one finished by the time SP get their act together.

Regards

Ellen.