Census Image query 1841 Robert Brown Paisley

[trish1]

I hope I have uploaded the image correctly
06/06/1841 Brown, Robert Census 573/00 055/00 029 Paisley Renfrew

I have a few of queries

1. I think Agnes had some children prior to the Brown children. I would like confirmation of their surname - Alexander ? (3rd line)
2. What is the address?
3. What does the abbreviation HLW mean for occupation? I think there is a list of these abbreviations somewhere - but I can't find them
4. What did a "draw boy" do?

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1440

Many thanks

Trish

Gallery URL added - AndrewP

[JustJean]

Hi trish

Image isn't approved yet but I found it on ancestry as this....

Name: Robert Brown
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Gender: Male
Where born: Renfrewshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Paisley Low
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Espedare St
Occupation: H L W
Parish Number: 573
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Agness Brown 36
Agness Brown 1
Robert Brown 24
Thomas Brown 22
Alexander Sloas 16
Marg Sloas 8
Nathaniel Sloas 10
Robert Sloas 12

So then I had a wee peek on SP and the surname of Alexander et al is surely SLOAN.

A HLW occupation is short for Hand Loom Weaver but I'm not too sure what a Draw Boy did. Possibly something to do with weaving but that's just a guess!!!

Best wishes
Jean

[AndrewP]

Hi Trish,

I would go for:

(1) Alexander Sloan (also Robert Sloan, Nathaniel Sloan and Mary Sloan).

(2) Espedare Street may be right.

(3) Hand Loom Weaver, see http://www.talkingscot.com/censuses/census-1841.htm

(4) ?

All the best,

AndrewP

[trish1]

Thanks Jean

I thought it was Sloan - I also had the Sloas on ancestry & it seemed very wrong, which was why I spent another 6 credits (that 30 seemed to go quickly! - I have 1 left)

I also just found what I was looking for, Alexander SLOAN coming to Australia with his family and Agnes - who is also living with them in 1851 (this time correct on ancestry & Agnes is listed as half sister).

If you have a few spare minutes - According to her death certificate, the mother of Agnes is Agnes Crawford, father Robert Brown. I cannot find on SP or IGI a Crawford Sloan Marriage, nor a Crawford/Sloan to Brown marriage. The preacher at her funeral was listed as "Independant Church" so I am wondering if she belonged to a dissenting church in Scotland. I also cannot find a birth for Agnes, she was born c. 1840 & according to the census and her death certificate in Paisley.

Many thanks for the fast answer


Hi Andrew - I just saw your reply - many thanks for the census link (I did look in the "tips" - should have checked the census )
Also for the street name & Sloan seems to definitely be the name. If I can find his death in Oz, I may get a father's name

Trish

Edit: father of Alexander is given as Alexander on the index record for his death NSW 1886

[nelmit]

Hi Trish,

Can't find draw boy but here is a definition of a drawer -
Drawer - Mine worker pushing or dragging coal carts. A junior version of that?

Regards,
Annette M

PS - I haven't been to The Mitchell lately but was it you I offered to have a search for from an earlier post?

If so give me the details again.

[Russell]

Hi Trish

A Draw Boy was employed to crawl in amongst the lint and grease to pull through the warp threads from the heddle onto the back roller.

A Beamer prepared the threads then they were slipped singly through heddles. This was mechanised weaving where the cheapest possible labour was employed and it put an end, almost completely, to the cottage based Hand Loom Weaving industry.
As a cottage industry most hand loom weavers employed their own children to help winding pirns and setting up the warp.

Russell

[Jack]

Hi folks,
Various sites about weaving; in no particular order...
--
Spinning the web > http://tinyurl.com/25jhce

http://greisnet.com/needhist.nsf/weavin ... s!OpenPage

http://www.trowbridgemuseum.co.uk/cloth/weaver.html

http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/cotton.html

http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?page ... nguage=eng

http://scottishtextileheritage.org.uk/

http://www.cottontimes.co.uk/cartwrighto.htm

http://www.cleo.net.uk/followtheyarn/ac ... l#imported

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Textiles.htm
--
Jack
ps - i've also seen Draw girls on censuses.
--

[AndrewP]

Hi Trish,

Quote from http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohsmh/ShelbyMuseum5a.html

• Prior to 1800, a patterned woven bed covering or drapery was produced on a draw - loom (of various types) that enabled certain specific woven strands (warp) to be raised or, less frequently, lowered in relation to the remaining strands of warp. The weaver's shuttle with the single crosswise running strand (weft) was passed through these "warped" strands and pressed against the previous weft strand. Another grouping of warp strands were then selected and raised (drawn) and the shuttle with the weft strand was again passed and in this "one at a time" manner, the desired pattern was made. This was an intricate and time consuming operation and nearly impossible for a single operator to accomplish. For that reason the weaver usually employed a boy 12 to 18 years of age who usually sat atop the loom to "draw" up the correct selection of warp strands and allow the weaver to operate the loom and shuttle. A good combination of weaver and "draw boy" could complete up to 1 to 2 weft strands a minute depending also on the complexity of the design. An examination of the number of weft strands per inch indicates how much time is involved in the making of a woven patterned coverlet. This time does not include any changing of strand colors.

All the best,

AndrewP

[JustJean]

Hi Trish

I have some suspicions about mother Agness. I think you're on the right thinking trail that perhaps the OPR records were in a dissenting church if recorded at all. Not sure if you're aware but son Nathaniel married in Paisley after statutory recordkeeping came into play and that marriage was recorded in the Congregationalist church. At that time...1863....he states both his parents are deceased. He fails however to state that his mum ever went by the name of Brown ......so perhaps she never was offically married to Robert.

Best wishes
Jean

[trish1]

Hi Everyone

Many thanks for all the information - I have researched a "weaving family" in England (mainly the cottage based type), but this is my first foray outside farmers/ag workers in Scotland (I think). Jack will have me reading until Christmas & beyond

Reading Russell's definition it occurs to me that it was on the TV show "The worst jobs in history" (Tony Robinson) - or something similar. Andrew's description sounds a slightly better option - but there are some things from the past, definitely best left there!

I do wonder at times how they managed the trips to Australia in little wooden ships - but if this was the alternative, I guess it wasn't such a bad idea.

Annette

I don't think it was me, but if I need a lookup, I am happy to let you know

Jean

Thank you again, for the information.
This may well be a possibility, given the ages of Agnes (snr) and Robert. Alexander and Agnes (jnr) came to Australia in 1853 & her obit said she was orphaned before this time. Robert seemed very young to have passed on - perhaps I should look for him & his brother on the census. I haven't been looking further at the other brothers - Agnes married into our family in Australia, so they are becoming more distant inlaws - but I was keen to find her ancestors and the Sloan family seem to be helping in this regard - I don't seem to be able to find any birth records for them either.

Is there anywhere I can gain access to dissenting church records? (No doubt this has been discussed before - I shall browse)

Trish