census help

hg · Post by hg » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:11 pm

I wondered if I could ask for a bit of help please!

I am trying to find ancestors in the 1841 and 1851 census.
They are James McHendrie (somtimes spelt McKendry and other various ways) I have no further information regarding James , but I do know that his wife was Rosina McHendrie, ms Higgins was born in Ireland. I have her death details from SP. She died in 1855 in Edinburgh. It states she had been there for 20 years, I think James was deceased by then. It also shows that her parents were unknown. All her children are named on there also. They are James Sarah Mary Janet and William, my great grandad. They are all in their forties by 1855 and I have found William in the 1851 census with his first wife Mary, then again in the 1881 census with my great grandmother Jane. Willaiam was born in Dumfries so maybe thats where James was born.
Hope some clever person might be able to spot something!
many thanks
Helen

ellenavon · Post by **ellenavon** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:17 am

Hi Helen

A few questions to help out please.

On Rosina's death cert, how old was she? Who was the informant?
Does it say widow or married?

There is a Rosa Higgans (sic) on the 1851 in Edinburgh, 85 Gross (sic) Market, a Lodging House Keeper, age 60 (c.1791) b. Ireland, with 9 lodgers, none with apparently connected surnames.

Some females did revert back to their maiden names when widowed.

I'll keep looking!

Ellen.

ellenavon · Post by **ellenavon** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:24 am

And on the 1841 she is at the same address, now Rosina Higgins, age 50, b. Ireland.

Head of the household is John Higgins, 40 (b. 1801) b. Ireland, and there is a William Higgins, age 25. Is this an approx age which would fit with your William? John could be an elder brother born before the family moved over to Scotland.

While it may be unlikely match because of the boys being Higgins, I think this family now needs to be proved as not connected somehow.

More questions - what ages exactly were Rosina's children on her death cert?

Regards

Ellen.

hg · Post by hg » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:01 pm

Hi Ellen,

Thank you so much for replying.

Yes, I did see that Rosina but I did not think she was mine. John is only 10 years younger than Rosina and the age of William did not tie in with mine.

To answer your questions.

Rosina's death certificate I found on Sp it shows the following:-

The surname is spelt McHendry, it does not say if she was a widow or not but, William Mchendry is shown as the witness. She died in the poorhouse in the Castle and Portburgh district (so there is a link to the cannongate) it says she had been there 20 years. Buried at the West Church Yard (have googled this, but cant find anything much)(also tried to find poorhouse in that area)
Mary is 48, Janet 46 and William is shown as 44, but that confused me a wee bit cos' I find him on the 1851 census born about 1815 (its spelt McKendry then), he is on the 1881 census born about 1819, his age using Rosina's death details would make him born 1809. It looks like Sarah and James are deceased at ages 11 and 16.
Thanks again for your help.
Maybe you will be able to find something I cant with this further information.
Helen

hg · Post by hg » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:04 pm

sorry Ellen,

I forgot to say that Rosina's age looks like 68, that would tie in with the information I already have that her dob is 1788.
Helen

ellenavon · Post by **ellenavon** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:24 pm

OK so we rule out the Higgins family.

I take it William is the Coal Merchant at 5 Castle Barns on the 1851 with Mary?

If so he's at the same address in 1861, with Jane, and on both 1851 and 1861 he says he's born in Edinburgh - wonder where he got Dumfries from in 1881???

Got to go out for a while now, but will have a look again when I come back in later.

Cheers

Ellen.

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:49 pm

hg wrote:Buried at the West Church Yard (have googled this, but cant find anything much)(also tried to find poorhouse in that area)

Hi Helen,

West Kirk was another name for St Cuthbert's Parish Church.

See http://www.st-cuthberts.net/

and http://www.st-cuthberts.net/kirkyard.htm

All the best,

AndrewP

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:57 pm

Hi Helen and Ellen,
Like yourselves i can only see Rosina / Rosa as a possible candidate in 1841 & 1851...
And I'm also unsure if it is Rosina "McHendrie" in these two censuses.

The ages in 1841 are confusing - John a 40yr old with a 50yr old mother...?
But who gave the details to the enumerator? John (40) or William (25)?
If William, then the census would make some sense.
And if that was the case, then John wasn't necessarily his brother...
I know i'm clutching at straws...just looking for a reason for the discrepancies!

But Rosina's February 1855 DC says the three living children are...
Mary 48, Janet 46, William 44...it was William himself who was the informant.
(in December that same year though he says on his MC that he is 36yrs...)
Rosina's 1855 DC doesn't mention a son John, but says her hubby is (not James).
The DC seems to suggest? that Rosina used the surname Higgins...
...as it says Rosina Higgins or McHendry.
Son William on his 1855 MC to Jane Dawson says mother is Rosina Higgins...
...but his 1903 DC says it is Rosina Ferrier!

The William (25yrs) in 1841 says born in Midlothian.
Your William's ages & birthplaces over the years are ...
1851 (36) b. Edinburgh.
1855 (36) b. Dumfries (MC)
1861 (40) b. Edinburgh.
1871 (52) b. Dumfries.
1881 (62) b. Dumfries.
1891 (73) b. Dumfries.
1901 (82) b. Dumfries.
1903 (85) ....(DC)
It's certainly the same William from 1851 to 1903 (occ. Coal Merchant)
Appears William (as 36) knocked a few years off in 1855 - because his wife Janet was only 20?
And they stayed off, so when he died he was actually abt 88 yrs old.
--
1841 census. 685-1. Ed 59? p 5. New Greyfriars
85 Grassmarket.
John HIGGINS, 40, Lodging House & Labourer, b Ireland
Rosina HIGGINS, 50, Mother, b Ireland
William HIGGINS, 25, Labourer, b MLN
James MURRAY, 30, Engineer, J, b MLN
Margaret MURRAY, 8, ----------------b MLN ...[meant to say 28?]
Margaret MURRAY, 6, ---------------b MLN
--
1851 census. 685-1 Ed 6. p 1. Edinburgh New - Greyfriars.
85 Grassmarket.
Rosa HIGGANS, head, 60, Lodging House Keeper, b Ireland
Alexr. RAE, lodger, 32, Cutler j/man, b Glasgow, LKS
Mary RAE, lodger, 29, --------------------b Stirling, STI
Henry RAE, lodger, 20, Cutler, j/man, b Glasgow, LKS
Robert RAE, lodger, 8, --------------------b Edinr, MLN
Daniel BROWN, lodger, 13, Cutler, App, b Glasgow, LKS
John N K, lodger, 14, Cutler, App, b Not Known
Charles BOYEL, lodger, 50, boatman on Canal, b Ireland
Mary HARPER, lodger, 49, -----------------------b Ireland
Isebela CLEGHORN, lodger, 22, ---------------b Peebles, PEE
--
Have you found censuses or DCs for daurs Mary or Janet?
Just to see if they had anything helpful!
Jack

ps; a lot of replies since i started writing this...!
--
pps; there is this William in 1841 with a very similar occupation.
(but possibly his parents are Thomas Higgens & Eliz. Gray)
I'm just making things more confusing! but no harm in knowing of him.
1841 census. 685/3. Canongate.
Canongate No 140.
Elizabeth HIGGINS, 50, -------------- b. MLN
William HIGGINS, 24, Coal Retailer, b MLN
--

hg · Post by hg » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:21 pm

Hi Andrewp, thanks for the link. Do you know of any information on poorhouses in the area?

Jack,

Yes, I found Williams age quite confusing. He was married to Mary before Jane and again he seemed quite a bit older.

As for Rosina's husband, you are right about his name. On William and Janes mc he is names as James, on her DC he is named as John? That just makes it more confusing. Oh well, I will just keep looking.

Any more sugestions gratefully received.

all the best

Helen

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:05 pm

Hi Helen,

Portsburgh was the area to the south of the Castle, which would now be described as the Grassmarket area through to Potterrow. The Edinburgh City Poorhouse, then set either side of Forest Road would have been within Portsburgh.

See http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/ ... urgh.shtml

See also http://www.electricscotland.com/history ... /chap9.htm for a description of the area.

All the best,

AndrewP