Helen Cassidy in 1841?

killearnan · Post by **killearnan** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:06 pm

I'd posted this deep in another thread I started on a related topic quite a while ago (like almost two years.....time flies....) but thought I'd try again since so many of you are so good at finding these lost people.....

For Helen Cassidy (who is also listed variously in records as Eleanor and Ellen; her son called her Helen Norrie on his marriage record, so I wouldn't be surprised if she went by Norrie or Nora, either), I have her parents' {Michael Cassidy and Mary Goodman} marriage in 1830 at St. Mary's RC church in Edinburgh, followed by the baptisms of Helen in 1832 and sister Jane in 1834 at the same church

And then nothing until Helen marries Francis McGee in 1848, also at St. Mary's RC church in Edinburgh.

There are no further baptisms for the family at St. Mary's, and I didn't see any the one chance I had to skim the Dundee RC records (as there is some evidence that relatives and other connections like godparents & witnesses spent some time in Dundee; surnames in this category include McPhillips, Connolly, Downie, Magrath and Blaney).

I'm guessing that one of a couple possibilities happened:

a. they moved outside Scotland - maybe back to Ireland? And then back to Scotland with the famine in time for her to marry Francis in 1848.

b. one or both parents died, leaving 9 yo Helen to get skipped in the 1841 census. I've looked through many of the Helens/other name variants born in the right time frame to see if Cassidy got completely mangled, or if there's a Helen with a last name that turns up in the various witnesses to family events.

So all speculation but fresh eyes do sometimes see something new.....

So my big question: where was Helen in 1841?

Post by **SarahND** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:49 pm

Hi,
How about this one... (similar structure to the last name, even if the actual letters are different, and certainly initial C could look like G). Since I'm just looking at the ancestry transcription, I can't tell if Gettany is for real

1841
Giles Street, South Leith, Midlothian
Beatrice Thomson, 50, born Midlothian, Washerwoman
Agnes Thomson, 20, born Midlothian, Dressmaker
James Hermanson, 20, born Midlothian, Glazier I
Peter Saunders, 22, born Midlothian, Labourer
Ellen Gettany, 8, born Midlothian

Do you know anything else about this family, e.g. what happened to Michael and Mary and if wee Jane survived?

All the best,
Sarah

P.S. I note that on the free surname search on SP there is exactly ONE occurrence of the surname Gettany. Guess where? 1841 census, of course. So perhaps that's how they actually wrote it. It does suggest, however, that this was not the standard spelling of whatever her name was!

killearnan · Post by **killearnan** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:08 pm

SarahND wrote:Hi,
How about this one... (similar structure to the last name, even if the actual letters are different, and certainly initial C could look like G). Since I'm just looking at the ancestry transcription, I can't tell if Gettany is for real

1841
Giles Street, South Leith, Midlothian
Beatrice Thomson, 50, born Midlothian, Washerwoman
Agnes Thomson, 20, born Midlothian, Dressmaker
James Hermanson, 20, born Midlothian, Glazier I
Peter Saunders, 22, born Midlothian, Labourer
Ellen Gettany, 8, born Midlothian

Do you know anything else about this family, e.g. what happened to Michael and Mary and if wee Jane survived?

I'll have to look at that one at SP. Don't remember seeing it before....which is why I figured that asking for other eyes was a good idea!

I know that Michael and Mary were both deceased when Helen/Ellen/Eleanor died in 1862. I've found no deaths for them, nor a marriage or death for Jane, so I'm guessing they actually died before the magic year of 1855

Well, at least not anything definitive. There are a couple Jane Cassidy entries where it could be her but there isn't enough info to be sure.

killearnan · Post by **killearnan** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:27 pm

SarahND wrote:How about this one... (similar structure to the last name, even if the actual letters are different, and certainly initial C could look like G). Since I'm just looking at the ancestry transcription, I can't tell if Gettany is for real

P.S. I note that on the free surname search on SP there is exactly ONE occurrence of the surname Gettany. Guess where? 1841 census, of course. So perhaps that's how they actually wrote it. It does suggest, however, that this was not the standard spelling of whatever her name was!

I looked at the actual return at SP; it does look pretty much like Gettany (surprise, surprise

) but I'm still wondering if it might be her..... location not that far off, age is right, she appears at first glance to be an 'extra'* in the household, and I can see someone misreading Cassidy as Gettany when recopying handwritten returns (especially at the end of a long day....). I thought I'd looked at all the girls with something approximating the right name -- and esp. all those whose family names started with C, K, and G -- but I seem to have missed this one somehow..... eyes do cross after a while, I guess

Thanks for looking - the new/fresh eyes are much appreciated!

BJ

* A scenario I was kinda sorta

expecting, as I've found no trace of later baptisms after her sister Jane in 1834, which leads me to believe that one or both of her parents died in the mid/late 1830s if the family otherwise stayed in Scotland, which seems likely, since Helen/Ellen/Eleanor/Norrie married there at the age of 16.... (and marriage quite that early also seems to suggest she didn't have much family).

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:08 pm

Hi BJ,
I think there's a good chance it's her. Who knows who answered the questions for the enumeration. The people in the household probably knew her mostly by her first name. Speaking from a phonetic point of view, every consonant is in the correct place in the mouth, just pronounced in a slightly different way. (e.g. you put your tongue in exactly the same place for "d" and "n" but just let some air out through your nose for the latter). Well, I won't bore you with the details

but I found it quite convincing!

Cheers,
Sarah

killearnan · Post by **killearnan** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:23 pm

SarahND wrote:I think there's a good chance it's her. Who knows who answered the questions for the enumeration. ..... Well, I won't bore you with the details but I found it quite convincing!

Believe me, the details wouldn't bore me one little (glances at MA in linguistics hanging on wall.....

) and I think it is highly likely it is her....but figured some thinking out loud was a good idea, in case I'm overlooking something or my eagerness has me making leaps that I shouldn't - in which case, I'd hope someone would pull me back to reality.....tracing the wrong person/line is so annoying

So, now the inquisitiveness kicks in.... random placement with an unrelated family? Or some relatives I don't know about? So many questions, so little time, Edinburgh (and its archives) so far away......

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:29 pm

killearnan wrote: Believe me, the details wouldn't bore me one little (glances at MA in linguistics hanging on wall..... )

I needn't have struggled to avoid saying "place of articulation" or "fricative" then

Nice to talk to a convert!

Always more questions... that's what keeps us hooked!

Sarah

killearnan · Post by **killearnan** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:44 pm

Thanks so much for finding her.....or at least a little girl who is quite likely her

This was one of those niggling loose ends that was driving me nuts..... Not sure finding her will help with further research, but you never know......

Wonders when (if?) the St. Mary's records will go on-line......

killearnan · Post by **killearnan** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:58 pm

To update....

Now that SP has OPR death/burial records up, I put in Cassidy... Despite them being Catholic and therefore skeptical that they'd be in the OPR records, it's a line where I know the details enough to do it from memory....a nice way to take a break from work

And I found Helen's mother's burial in September 1835!

So the theory that at least one of Helen's parents had died as the reason that I'd only found the two baptisms looks like it's true.

Post by **SarahND** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:05 pm

=D> $\:D/$
Great news!

Sarah (going back to SP having briefly torn herself away from the death/burial OPRs)