Hello
can i please ask if someone will have a look at the 1861 census for a family with the name Bryce.i have a death cert for 1867 for a Margaret Bryce age 36 married to a John Bryce (they married in 1849) address 7 West Bothwell High Church Burgh of Glasgow .I need to find out if possible where margaret was born as i have her parents names but can't find a match on the IGI that ties in meaning there is a whole list of children born to a Alexander Stewart& aMargaret Buchannan in the Bonhill area but no child showing called Margaret .The only Margaret showing with parents by that name was born in Torphichen West Lothian but date is given as being 1822 and i am looking for one about 1831. The Bonhill family makes more sense as in it was a family from Bonhill that Margaret's daughter also called Margaret married into (mcnaughts).thankyou regards maggie
Bryce family in 1861 possibly in High church .....
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maggie
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Jack
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maggie
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bryce in 1861
Hello Jack 
thanks for replying to my post i am nearly sure the answer to that question is yes!! that's if you are looking at the 51 but i have the family on the 1871 census at 56 William???
Milburn??? street John Bryce head widower 50 engine finisher??? born ----------Barony
Thomas son 20 (can't make out occupation)
Margaret daughter 19 house keeper
i have found a 2nd marriage for John and his death cert
Thomas i haven't found and Margaret married to James Mcnaught who had "poor Arthur" regards maggie
thanks for replying to my post i am nearly sure the answer to that question is yes!! that's if you are looking at the 51 but i have the family on the 1871 census at 56 William???
Milburn??? street John Bryce head widower 50 engine finisher??? born ----------Barony
Thomas son 20 (can't make out occupation)
Margaret daughter 19 house keeper
i have found a 2nd marriage for John and his death cert
Thomas i haven't found and Margaret married to James Mcnaught who had "poor Arthur" regards maggie
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Jack
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- Location: Paisley
Re Bryce in 1861
Hi Maggie,
Can't check many censuses (or addresses) for a wee while - The Mitchell's closed for 6wks
re-opens 3 Sep 
So these are just names - no more details.
--
1851 cens 644-1 (539) Ed 43 p 8
John BRYCE 30
Margaret 22
Thomas 1
--
1861 cens 644-8 Ed 92 p 2
Margaret STEWART 45, b Loudon, AYR
Elizabeth STEWART 15, b Kilbride, Arran
John BRYCE 40, b Glasgow
Margaret BRYCE 31, b Glasgow
Thomas BRYCE 11, b Glasgow
[but no daur Margaret]
[the Stewart names before John may just be a coincidence]
1861 cens 644-9 Ed 61 p 14
Elizabeth BRYCE 70, b Glasgow
John BRYCE 40, b Glasgow
Margaret BRYCE 9, b Glasgow
--
If your John BRYCE's mother was maybe an Elizabeth born abt 1790 then possibly he was visiting with daur Margaret, and John was somehow recorded at two addresses.
I've seen this happening twice - but they were children with their G-parents who lived nearby.
This 9yr old Margaret is the only one in Glasgow that seems to fit - others of a similar age appear to be with other families.
But it's a wee wait till Sep - unless the GWSFHS has the 1861 censuses at their Partick premises.
Can't remember if they have, but will find out.
Jack
Can't check many censuses (or addresses) for a wee while - The Mitchell's closed for 6wks
re-opens 3 Sep So these are just names - no more details.
--
1851 cens 644-1 (539) Ed 43 p 8
John BRYCE 30
Margaret 22
Thomas 1
--
1861 cens 644-8 Ed 92 p 2
Margaret STEWART 45, b Loudon, AYR
Elizabeth STEWART 15, b Kilbride, Arran
John BRYCE 40, b Glasgow
Margaret BRYCE 31, b Glasgow
Thomas BRYCE 11, b Glasgow
[but no daur Margaret]
[the Stewart names before John may just be a coincidence]
1861 cens 644-9 Ed 61 p 14
Elizabeth BRYCE 70, b Glasgow
John BRYCE 40, b Glasgow
Margaret BRYCE 9, b Glasgow
--
If your John BRYCE's mother was maybe an Elizabeth born abt 1790 then possibly he was visiting with daur Margaret, and John was somehow recorded at two addresses.
I've seen this happening twice - but they were children with their G-parents who lived nearby.
This 9yr old Margaret is the only one in Glasgow that seems to fit - others of a similar age appear to be with other families.
But it's a wee wait till Sep - unless the GWSFHS has the 1861 censuses at their Partick premises.
Can't remember if they have, but will find out.
Jack
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maggie
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bryce
Hello Jack
thankyou for your reply and the information yes John 's mother was called Elizabeth .an Elizabeth young married to a Thomas Bryce married 13July 1816 Gorbals according to the IGI.I have a death cert for an Elizabeth Bryce in 1861 widow of Thomas Bryce a distillary manager (which is the same info on the father that i have on John's 2nd marriage cert to a Helen Barbara Mccleod and on his death cert)but it gives her age as being 61 informant was son John .Elizabeth's parents are named as a Andrew Young a shoemaker master and Martha Manderson who i had found on the IGI with 5 possibly 6 as there is 2 Helen's children one being an Elizabeth born in 1790.I have found a marriage for a Andrew Young and Martha Manderson on scotspeople there is two entries for 1781 .So i will have to order the OPR to see if that gives me a fathers name for Martha.
I haven't found anything on Thomas Bryce that i can link in .
The margaret Stewart age 45 on the 1861 census you gave me i wonder if she could be my Margaret Buchannan??i will have a look around for her later today.
It's just my luck to have yet another mystery in this tree with John appearing twice it will be interesting to see how far apart the houses where and what the occupation of the 2 John's are. i understand your message about the Mitchell Jack .thankyou once again regards Maggie
thankyou for your reply and the information yes John 's mother was called Elizabeth .an Elizabeth young married to a Thomas Bryce married 13July 1816 Gorbals according to the IGI.I have a death cert for an Elizabeth Bryce in 1861 widow of Thomas Bryce a distillary manager (which is the same info on the father that i have on John's 2nd marriage cert to a Helen Barbara Mccleod and on his death cert)but it gives her age as being 61 informant was son John .Elizabeth's parents are named as a Andrew Young a shoemaker master and Martha Manderson who i had found on the IGI with 5 possibly 6 as there is 2 Helen's children one being an Elizabeth born in 1790.I have found a marriage for a Andrew Young and Martha Manderson on scotspeople there is two entries for 1781 .So i will have to order the OPR to see if that gives me a fathers name for Martha.
I haven't found anything on Thomas Bryce that i can link in .
The margaret Stewart age 45 on the 1861 census you gave me i wonder if she could be my Margaret Buchannan??i will have a look around for her later today.
It's just my luck to have yet another mystery in this tree with John appearing twice it will be interesting to see how far apart the houses where and what the occupation of the 2 John's are. i understand your message about the Mitchell Jack .thankyou once again regards Maggie
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Jack
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Re Margaret Buchanan
Hi Maggie,
The 45yr old Margaret STEWART (b~1816 Loudon) would need to be a good few years older to be Margaret BUCHANAN the mother of 31yr old Margaret. Maybe she actually was....
Reason being that Alexander STEWART & Margaret BUCHANAN were married 1825.
Or maybe she is a sister-in-law of Margaret BRYCE (ms STEWART)?
Do you know who the sons of Alexander Stewart & Margaret Buchanan were married to?
Or, as i mentioned - just coincidence on the name!
I notice a married Thomas BRYCE, 32, silversmith in the 1881 census living at 11 Kelvindale St, Barony.
Any chance that was the occupation in 1871?
Jack
--
ps - this might be Margaret BUCHANAN in 1851?
1851 cens 394 Ed 8 p 2 (Bonhill)
Margaret STEWART 48
Mary 19
John 16
James 13
--
Edited to correct Margaret's married name from Boyce to Bryce.
The 45yr old Margaret STEWART (b~1816 Loudon) would need to be a good few years older to be Margaret BUCHANAN the mother of 31yr old Margaret. Maybe she actually was....
Reason being that Alexander STEWART & Margaret BUCHANAN were married 1825.
Or maybe she is a sister-in-law of Margaret BRYCE (ms STEWART)?
Do you know who the sons of Alexander Stewart & Margaret Buchanan were married to?
Or, as i mentioned - just coincidence on the name!
I notice a married Thomas BRYCE, 32, silversmith in the 1881 census living at 11 Kelvindale St, Barony.
Any chance that was the occupation in 1871?
Jack
--
ps - this might be Margaret BUCHANAN in 1851?
1851 cens 394 Ed 8 p 2 (Bonhill)
Margaret STEWART 48
Mary 19
John 16
James 13
--
Edited to correct Margaret's married name from Boyce to Bryce.
Last edited by Jack on Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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maggie
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Hello Jack
thankyou for your message Hmnnn... i am getting myself a tad confused with this lot i can't for the life of me work out what Thomas Bryce age 20 in the 1871 census occupation is -------- to maker is my best guess that i can come up with .it is a clear copy it's just the syle of writing that i am finding hard to decipher.
i haven't come accross the surname of Boyce yet!!! and i don't know anything on the sons of Alexander Stewart & margaret .
also i think i just might have a problem with the father John's info this is what i have John Bryce married Margaret Stewart in 1849 Barony
John bryce head widower age 50 in 1871 engine finisher? born ------Barony(rest of info in previous message)
I have a wedding cert for 1873 for John Bryce blacksmith journeyman widower marrying a Helen Barbara mccleod .John's father is named as Thomas Bryce distlery manager and Elizabeth Bryce maiden name Young.
so the occupation for John dosen't tie in with the 1871 census.
John Bryce death cert in 1881 in the october gives him as a iron finisher journeyman married to 1st Margaret Stewart and 2nd Helen Barbara Mccleod the address is 9 dover street Glasgow in the district of Kelvin age 59 parents Thomas Bryce distillery manager and Elizabeth m.s Young.could these occupations be linked ?i will have a look at the last bit of info you sent about Margaret Buchannan as i have that disc.Thanks once again Jack regards maggie
thankyou for your message Hmnnn... i am getting myself a tad confused with this lot i can't for the life of me work out what Thomas Bryce age 20 in the 1871 census occupation is -------- to maker is my best guess that i can come up with .it is a clear copy it's just the syle of writing that i am finding hard to decipher.
i haven't come accross the surname of Boyce yet!!! and i don't know anything on the sons of Alexander Stewart & margaret .
also i think i just might have a problem with the father John's info this is what i have John Bryce married Margaret Stewart in 1849 Barony
John bryce head widower age 50 in 1871 engine finisher? born ------Barony(rest of info in previous message)
I have a wedding cert for 1873 for John Bryce blacksmith journeyman widower marrying a Helen Barbara mccleod .John's father is named as Thomas Bryce distlery manager and Elizabeth Bryce maiden name Young.
so the occupation for John dosen't tie in with the 1871 census.
John Bryce death cert in 1881 in the october gives him as a iron finisher journeyman married to 1st Margaret Stewart and 2nd Helen Barbara Mccleod the address is 9 dover street Glasgow in the district of Kelvin age 59 parents Thomas Bryce distillery manager and Elizabeth m.s Young.could these occupations be linked ?i will have a look at the last bit of info you sent about Margaret Buchannan as i have that disc.Thanks once again Jack regards maggie
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Jack
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- Location: Paisley
Hi Maggie,
Glad to hear i'm not the only confused one... I certainly was when i said BOYCE - shd've been BRYCE - sorry about that!
If you upload the 1871 census to the Gallery we could all have a look at Thomas' occupation and the address.
Engineer finisher & blacksmith aren't exactly the same (tho' John was as an engine smith in the 1st 1861 census), but there seems plenty of proof from the 1873 MC & 1881 DC that it's the same John BRYCE.
1881 Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 9 Dover St
Source: FHL Film 0203661 GRO Ref Volume 644-9 EnumDist 33 Page 25
John BRYCE M 60 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Engine Finisher
Helen BRYCE M 50 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Wife
--
Got some census details - but forgot to look at those STEWARTs in 1861.
I was in too much of a hurry - using someone else's reader whilst their back was turned!
Anyway, was it 54 Eglinton St. where John BRYCE's mother Elizabeth YOUNG died in 1861?
Although Anderston is on the north, and Tradeston on the south banks of the River Clyde the streets aren't very far away from each other over the bridge.
1851 cens 644-1 (539) Ed 43 p 8 (City - St. George)
45 Brown St.
John BRYCE, head, marr, 30, engineers finisher, j/man, b Glasgow, LKS
Margaret BRYCE, wife, 22, ----------- b Govan, LKS
Thomas BRYCE, son, 1, ------------ b Glasgow, LKS
1861 cens 644-8 Ed 92 p 2 (Anderston)
7 Bothwell St.
John BRYCE, head, marr, 40, engine smith, b Glasgow, LKS
Margaret BRYCE, wife, 31, ---------- b Glasgow, LKS
Thomas BRYCE, son, 11, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
1861 cens 644-9 Ed 61 p 14 (Tradeston)
54 Eglinton St.
Elizth. BRYCE, head, widow, 70, ------------ b Glasgow, LKS
John BRYCE, son, marr, 40, engineer, b Glasgow, LKS
Margt. BRYCE, gr-daur, 9, ---------- b Glasgow, LKS
======
The Margaret STEWART b1822 Torpichen, W Lothian i feel wouldn't be "yours" - apart from being abt 9yrs older, there were siblings from 1815.
Also, Margaret who married John BRYCE has GOVAN as her birthplace in 1851 (Glasgow 1861).
There are 3 Margaret STEWARTs (10, 12, 12yrs) in Glasgow 1841 - two with parents Alexander & Margaret, and one with a mother Widow STEWART (but she has a son Alexander).
The 1st two are in the St George's area, the 3rd in Govan.
What is Margaret's father Alexander STEWART's occupation?
--
No daur Margaret in this 1841 census, unless somewhere else, and pity no hubby at home in either census to see his name, but he is a printfield worker.
So maybe this is a different STEWART family in Bonhill.
1841 cens 493 Ed 3 p 24 (Bonhill)
Off Mitchell St.
Margaret STEWART, 35, ------------- b SCT
Malcolm STEWART, 14, labourer, b SCT
Mary STEWART, 9, tearer, b DNB
John STEWART, 7, -------- b DNB
James STEWART, 3, ----- b DNB
George STEWART, 3mos, --- b DNB
James BUCHANAN, 25, calico printer, b SCT
1851 Cens 493 (393) Ed 8 p 2 (Bonhill)
Brysons Loan.
Margaret STEWART, head, marr, 48, printfield labourers wife, b Linlithgow, Linlithgow
Mary STEWART, daur, u/m 19, printfield worker, b Bonhill, DNB
John STEWART, son, u/m 16, printfield worker, b Bonhill, DNB
James STEWART, son, 13, printfield worker, b Bonhill, DNB
--
Jack
Glad to hear i'm not the only confused one... I certainly was when i said BOYCE - shd've been BRYCE - sorry about that!
If you upload the 1871 census to the Gallery we could all have a look at Thomas' occupation and the address.
Engineer finisher & blacksmith aren't exactly the same (tho' John was as an engine smith in the 1st 1861 census), but there seems plenty of proof from the 1873 MC & 1881 DC that it's the same John BRYCE.
1881 Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 9 Dover St
Source: FHL Film 0203661 GRO Ref Volume 644-9 EnumDist 33 Page 25
John BRYCE M 60 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Engine Finisher
Helen BRYCE M 50 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Wife
--
Got some census details - but forgot to look at those STEWARTs in 1861.
I was in too much of a hurry - using someone else's reader whilst their back was turned!
Anyway, was it 54 Eglinton St. where John BRYCE's mother Elizabeth YOUNG died in 1861?
Although Anderston is on the north, and Tradeston on the south banks of the River Clyde the streets aren't very far away from each other over the bridge.
1851 cens 644-1 (539) Ed 43 p 8 (City - St. George)
45 Brown St.
John BRYCE, head, marr, 30, engineers finisher, j/man, b Glasgow, LKS
Margaret BRYCE, wife, 22, ----------- b Govan, LKS
Thomas BRYCE, son, 1, ------------ b Glasgow, LKS
1861 cens 644-8 Ed 92 p 2 (Anderston)
7 Bothwell St.
John BRYCE, head, marr, 40, engine smith, b Glasgow, LKS
Margaret BRYCE, wife, 31, ---------- b Glasgow, LKS
Thomas BRYCE, son, 11, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
1861 cens 644-9 Ed 61 p 14 (Tradeston)
54 Eglinton St.
Elizth. BRYCE, head, widow, 70, ------------ b Glasgow, LKS
John BRYCE, son, marr, 40, engineer, b Glasgow, LKS
Margt. BRYCE, gr-daur, 9, ---------- b Glasgow, LKS
======
The Margaret STEWART b1822 Torpichen, W Lothian i feel wouldn't be "yours" - apart from being abt 9yrs older, there were siblings from 1815.
Also, Margaret who married John BRYCE has GOVAN as her birthplace in 1851 (Glasgow 1861).
There are 3 Margaret STEWARTs (10, 12, 12yrs) in Glasgow 1841 - two with parents Alexander & Margaret, and one with a mother Widow STEWART (but she has a son Alexander).
The 1st two are in the St George's area, the 3rd in Govan.
What is Margaret's father Alexander STEWART's occupation?
--
No daur Margaret in this 1841 census, unless somewhere else, and pity no hubby at home in either census to see his name, but he is a printfield worker.
So maybe this is a different STEWART family in Bonhill.
1841 cens 493 Ed 3 p 24 (Bonhill)
Off Mitchell St.
Margaret STEWART, 35, ------------- b SCT
Malcolm STEWART, 14, labourer, b SCT
Mary STEWART, 9, tearer, b DNB
John STEWART, 7, -------- b DNB
James STEWART, 3, ----- b DNB
George STEWART, 3mos, --- b DNB
James BUCHANAN, 25, calico printer, b SCT
1851 Cens 493 (393) Ed 8 p 2 (Bonhill)
Brysons Loan.
Margaret STEWART, head, marr, 48, printfield labourers wife, b Linlithgow, Linlithgow
Mary STEWART, daur, u/m 19, printfield worker, b Bonhill, DNB
John STEWART, son, u/m 16, printfield worker, b Bonhill, DNB
James STEWART, son, 13, printfield worker, b Bonhill, DNB
--
Jack
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maggie
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bryce buchanan /Stewart
Hello Jack
thankyou for your reply and the information the 1841 Stewart family i feel could be a real possibility though i can't find a Mary birth on Scotlandspeople( or my margaret )what i have found is this
a marriage in 1823 for a Alexander Stewart & a Margaret Buchannan in 1823 Barony searching between 1800 -1830 this was the only "hit" and this list of children using the years 1800 -1854 gives you the following 8 names using Alexander stewart/margaret buchanan
Alexander 1824 Barony child 1 Alexander Stewart/Margaret Buchanan
Alexander 1833 Bonhill
Helen 1825 Barony child 2
James 1835 Bonhill
Janet Kay 1836 Bonhill
John 1834 Bonhill
Malcolm 1827 Barony child 3
George kinloch 1841 Bonhill
all with parents being Alexander stewart/Margaret Buchanan
so Jack i don't really know what to make of it as Malcolm ties in age wise with the 1841 so does John and george but not the age given for James and no sign whatsoever of a Mary/margaret which i suppose could be interchangeable names??but the buchanan name for the James ties in with margaret's maiden name.more confusion i fear?as you say it's a pity no husband is named on the census .thanks once again regards maggie
thankyou for your reply and the information the 1841 Stewart family i feel could be a real possibility though i can't find a Mary birth on Scotlandspeople( or my margaret )what i have found is this
a marriage in 1823 for a Alexander Stewart & a Margaret Buchannan in 1823 Barony searching between 1800 -1830 this was the only "hit" and this list of children using the years 1800 -1854 gives you the following 8 names using Alexander stewart/margaret buchanan
Alexander 1824 Barony child 1 Alexander Stewart/Margaret Buchanan
Alexander 1833 Bonhill
Helen 1825 Barony child 2
James 1835 Bonhill
Janet Kay 1836 Bonhill
John 1834 Bonhill
Malcolm 1827 Barony child 3
George kinloch 1841 Bonhill
all with parents being Alexander stewart/Margaret Buchanan
so Jack i don't really know what to make of it as Malcolm ties in age wise with the 1841 so does John and george but not the age given for James and no sign whatsoever of a Mary/margaret which i suppose could be interchangeable names??but the buchanan name for the James ties in with margaret's maiden name.more confusion i fear?as you say it's a pity no husband is named on the census .thanks once again regards maggie
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maggie
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Hello Jack
just a quick update i have found Mary on the IGI born 1831 Bonhill Dunbarton and when you look into her family record lo & behold the whole list of siblings are there with the parents Alexander Stewart& margaret Buchanan.the record was submitted by a member of the LDS and has added more confusion which i will enquire about tomorrow night hopefully at the LDS centre.
i think that Mary must be my Margaret or is that just wishfull thinking?
thanks once again Jack
regards maggie
just a quick update i have found Mary on the IGI born 1831 Bonhill Dunbarton and when you look into her family record lo & behold the whole list of siblings are there with the parents Alexander Stewart& margaret Buchanan.the record was submitted by a member of the LDS and has added more confusion which i will enquire about tomorrow night hopefully at the LDS centre.
i think that Mary must be my Margaret or is that just wishfull thinking?
thanks once again Jack
regards maggie