1901 census - problem deciphering place of birth

casserole · Post by **casserole** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:40 pm

Hello folks,

I have found my greatgrandmother on the 1901 census with her three children. They were living at 116 Thistle Street, Gorbals. 644/12 040/12 020

My greatgrandmother was from Lithuania which was Russia at that time and under 'where born' the name is crossed out. I can read Russia but the words before and after 'Russia' I can't read.

Also, at the end of the entry for her and her children there is a tick after each place 'where born'. The children were born in Glasgow. No others on the page have these ticks. They were Jewish so might this have something to do with the reason?

So, I wonder if it's possible for someone to have a look at this entry to see if they can have a go at deciphering her place of birth and also if someone could tell me why there are ticks after their places of birth.

Many thanks

Post by **AndrewP** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:25 pm

Hi Casserole,

Fill in a contact form on the ScotlandsPeople website (found via Contact Us). Tell them that parts of the census page are not legible. Normally they will send you a fresh scan of the page which is much easier read.

All the best,

AndrewP

Roxy · Post by **Roxy** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:43 pm

Casserole,

I have a number of census downloads that have 'ticks' next to the 'where born'. I don't think that there is anything untoward about this.

Good luck with your research.

Roxy

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:04 pm

Ancestry has them as:

Name: Jane Reermer
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Russia Subject, K??
Registration Number: 644/12
Registration district: Gorbals
Civil parish: Glasgow Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 116 Thistle St
Occupation: Grocer

Household Members: Name Age
Jane Reermer age 35
Agnes Reermer age 15
Myres Reermer age 11
Rebecca Reermer age 5

and they're found on SP under RIMMER.

To be honest I'm not quite sure what the enumerator recorded that was subsequently struck out but here's that section if anyone wants to have a peek:

Best wishes
Jean

Post by **AndrewP** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:34 pm

I agree with Jean that the place begins with K (although I wouldn't rule out R, even though it is not identical to other R place names listed on that page. It could well end with burgh; Scots translation of ___burg perhaps. So we have K________burg(h).

Any better estimates?

See Google map including Lithuania, but bear in mind that some place names may have changed over the years.

I think the scoring out is not a deletion, but the marks used when the enumerator was completing the summary pages. These marks are usually in red or blue pencil. If you see the original book in New Register House, or a fresh colour scan, these coloured pencil line become see-through and the words underneath easier to read. Unfortunately the census pages on ScotlandsPeople originate from monochrome microfilms, so everything shows as black or white - no red, blue, or even shades of grey. However if you get a fresh scan of the document from GROS via the SP contact form, you should have a far better chance of reading these words. The ticks you referred to in your first post are probably part of the summarising process too - they are commonly found on census pages.

All the best,

AndrewP

casserole · Post by **casserole** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:19 pm

AndrewP, Roxy and JustJean,

Thank you all so much for your suggestions.

I will contact SP via the Contact Form, Andrew and see what transpires.

Thank you for answering the ticks question, Roxy.

Yes, I thought that the first letter was K, Jean and Andrew, but keeping an open mind. I have the Declaration of Nationality for my greatgrandmother Jane Riemer, and it gives her place of birth as Tavriq, Kovno, Lithuania. Too many letters for Kovno in the census.

Many thanks again, folks. I'll let you know how I get on.

Carole

karenmcc · Post by **karenmcc** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:04 am

Hi carole,

Hi carole, I have family from europe also and have had numerous problems finding place names. Not only have place names changed, but were known by various names at the same time. The ending Berg doesn't sound very lithuanian to me, but is used in yiddish whcih ties in with your family being jewish. Add to that english speaking people writing down what they hear someone with an accent saying. Have you looked at Jewishgen, this link takes you to a page that lists towns in Kovno in 1900, http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.d ... LES~~~~~SE~~ .

Karen

casserole · Post by **casserole** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:20 am

Hello Karen,

Thank you very much for the information and the website. I have just had a look in and I think it is going to be a difficult task to find out what is on the 1901 census. I am going to follow Andrew's advice and contact Scotlandspeople to see what they come up with and then I might have a clue as to where to start.

Thank you again for your help

Carole

Bethan · Post by **Bethan** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:13 pm

Hello Carole

Could it be Konigsberg? Lots on the Lithuanian Teutonic knights there on Google - 'capital of East Prussia until 1945" - then named Kaliningrad. A bit too much information to wade through, really!

Bethan

Roxy · Post by **Roxy** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:08 pm

Carole,

I'm tempted by Konigsberg; now Kaliningrad. Also, it's not a million miles from Harsz!

Good luck - you appear to have at this a while

Roxy