McNeil Family from Earlish, Snizort, Skye

[Alcluith]

In my research I came across this McNeil family

Parents, Donald McNeil and Mary McLeod
Mary McNeil christened 26 Nov 1823
Norman McNeil born 12 Feb 1826
Both lawful therefore Donald and Mary married.
I cannot find anything else about this family, no Marriage, census or death for any of them.
I have also searched to see if they had emigrated but again cannot find any trace of them.
Any ideas appreciated.


Alcluith

[SarahND]

Hello Alcluith,
Do you know for a fact that Norman and/or Mary lived to adulthood?
If so, all I can figure is that somehow between birth and the first census, Norman and his brother Donald lost their parents and became McNabs, instead of McNeils...

1841 They are living in the household of Flora McKenzie in Kilmuir:
Maligar, Kilmuir, Inverness
Flora McKenzie, 60, Crofter
Mary McCowan, 20
Margt McLeod, 15
Donald McNab, 10
Normand McNab, 15

In the IGI (submitted) Donald is also the son of Donald McNeil and Mary McLeod
There are no McNab children by these names and dates being born in Snizort-- but they could just be missing, of course.

On Scotland's People, there are seven children born in Snizort to Donald M*n* and Mary M*leod. None of these are M*nab*. Two are M*neil: Norman and Donald. One is M*niel: Mary
Four are M*c* but can't figure out what the other one is.

1851 Norman McNab born Snizort abt 1825 is a ploughman in Kilmuir
1861 he is back in Snizort, married, with first child named Donald!

So... not sure if these McNabs are your McNeils, but they're all I've found so far! Do you know any more information about their later lives?

All the best,
Sarah

Later:
There is a Norman MacNabb on the IGI christened 23 Oct 1823 in Snizort, parents Donald MacNabb and Mary MacKenzie. No sign of a Donald, however. Well, I'll await your answer on these people before trying anything more.

[Alcluith]

Hi Sarah,

Thanks for your reply. With this one I have no facts and a lot of big suppositions.

I was hoping to eliminate them from my research.
Donald is the child of Donald McNeil and Mary McLeod, and as you say it is (submitted) but it is also recorded the Old Parish Register for Snizort. The fact that someone has submitted him to the LDS makes me think he survived and possibly went abroad either with his parents or later himself but again why not finding them on the 1841 census?

Following on from your take on the change of surname, this was my tack in this line of research. My great great grandfather Norman McLeod, was staying with his "grandmother" and "aunt" both Margaret McNeil in 1841 census with no relationship shown. In a later census he is with his "aunt" Margaret Buchanan, nee McNeil listed as Nephew, thus the " " as they may still not be related, as is the case with my own "aunt". Near to Norman is a Mary McLeod with another family, although this is the 1841 census, their ages would tie them close to the McNeils.
The fly in the ointment is Donald who cannot be found, nor his parents, so maybe they all emigrated and as a long shot I was hoping that someone on this site is or has researched this family, given the LDS entry.

Although dying around 1881/82 I cannot find a death certificate for Norman McLeod and thus this line of research but I suspect that he was illegitimate, his mother being a McNeil and his father a McLeod and the next door(ish) Mary McLeod is not related. Maybe someday

Alcluith

[SarahND]

Hi again,
So... given the places of birth of his children in the 1861 census, when he was with his aunt Margaret, I searched for a Norman in Bonhill, Dumbarton and hit upon this one, where someone was having a field day with his place of birth:

1851
Michel Land Gas Street, Bonhill, Alexandria, Dumbartonshire
Angus Drummond, 55, Head, born Ardchattan, Argyle, Press Prenter (printfield)
Ann Drummond, 53, Wife, born Kelman, Argyle
George Drummond, 17, Nephew, born Cardyle, Argyle, Scholar
Norman McLead, 26, Lodger, born Smsael, Anglesey, Laboure Ag

Can you say "Snizort, Inverness" so that it sounds like "Smsael, Anglesey" or is that just an Ancestry acting up?

I must say that before today I never realized just how many Norman Mcleods there were in Scotland! At least he wasn't called James...

Where was Norman living when you last sighted him? Was his wife Catherine still alive? Were the children shown with him in 1861 still alive also? What makes you think he died in 1881/2?

Regards,
Sarah

[Alcluith]

Hi Sarah,

Like me you like a good mystery.
It may just have been Norman's Gaelic accent that caused the problem.
He married in 1853 in Bonhill.
Why the death in 1881/82
Well his son Malcolm marries in 1880 and he is in not listed as deceased but on his daughter Christina's 1882 marriage certificate he is listed as deceased.
His wife Catherine is not a widow in 1881 census but is in 1891 census.
There is a Norman and his son Donald in Snizort in 1881 census altough cannot be sure that that is the right one as birth and ages don't match. If you look in the 1871 census Norman is not with the family and cannot be found therefore at first we thought of desertion, but in 1880 his 16 yr old daughter Mary dies and Norman is the informant, so he is still around.
As he is often listed as a fisherman, is that was where he was in the 1871 census? we have come to the conclusion that he was possibly drowned at sea, there were some bad storms around that period. Possibly his son Donald travelled back to Renton to inform the family and that due to grief and timescale they never registered his death, but you can make anything fit.
So again he remains one of my brick walls and I cannot get any further back in his line maybe some day something will turn up!

Alcluith

[nelmit]

Hi Andy and Sarah,

I've kind of lost the plot with this one - don't know who I'm looking for any more (and if you two can't solve it!!!!?)

Anyway I think I may be replying to your original question Andy (re the legitimate Norman) with this possible Norman born around 1827 at Snizort. I'm still trying to find him in earlier census records.

Name: Norman MacNal
Age: 64
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Snizort, Invernessshire
Registration Number: 117/1
Registration district: North Snizort
Civil parish: Snizort
County: Inverness
Address: 24 Idrigill
Occupation: Crofter
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 32
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1891_34
Household Members:
Name Age
Norman MacNal 64
Mary MacNal 68
Alexander McDonald 63

Feel free to tell me to butt out if I'm confusing the issue.

Andy was it your grandfather Norman who married at Bonhill in 1853 and was he known as McLeod or Mcneil then?

Regards,
Annette

Later .........................Actually I see now I am confusing the issue as this is most likely Norman McNab.

[SarahND]

Feel free to tell me to butt out if I'm confusing the issue.

The issue was quite confused enough before, so I don't know how you could confuse it further!
I must admit that I have pages of notes on possible sightings of Norman, but am not sure enough about any of them to post! Had to do other things today and thus didn't have my head clear enough to understand what I was doing Very glad to have you step in with a few more ideas!

All the best,
Sarah

[Alcluith]

Sarah, Annette,

My original inquiry was about the McNeil family.

I had found the birth of two children Norman and Mary McNeil to a Donald McNeil and Mary Mcleod and could not find any trace of them in the 1841 census onwards. There was a Donald McNeil as another sibling in the LDS but it was a submitted entry not an actual birth although through SP I was able to confirm Donald's birth.

My reason for this research was my Norman McLeod in the 1841 census was with a McNeil family that he later claims as relations and again in the 1841 census nearby is a Mary McLeod with an unrelated family. Both their ages matched the births given for Mary & Norman McNeil, as a long shot could this be the McNeil children taking there mother's name
It is common in the West Coast, even today, for women to be called by their maiden surname, even if married, so if Mary and Norman grew up as Mary McLeod's children then they may have assumed they were McLeods!
I was trying to find more about the McNeils and what happened to them to confirm my theory or to eliminate them from my research.
Initially I had dismissed the sibling Donald McNeil but given the fact he was a child of Donald and Mary and because of the entry in the LDS, I suspect that he survived and it is likely that the whole family emigrated, if in fact both Mary and Norman survived.

Annette to answer your question, my Norman McLeod has always been McLeod but two of his children were Donald and Mary with no reason for these names whereas the other siblings can be tied into related family pattern.

After some 8 years of research Norman is one of two brickwalls that I just haven't been able get over but as the old song goes I will keep butting my head against it hoping that some day it might give way.

Alcluith

[SarahND]

Hi again,
Okay, I think I have understood now that you are not looking for your ancestor Norman McLeod, but would like to eliminate Norman McNeil born Snizort 1826 from the running. So here is a possible sighting in Nova Scotia. I like this one since the mother is Mary and there are children Mary and Donald (but then, most McNeil families seem to have children with those names!)

1871
Whycocomagh, Inverness, Nova Scotia
Norman McNeil, 46, born Scotland, Farmer
Catherine, 46, born Scotland
Malcolm, 16, born Nova Scotia, Farm Labour
Mary 15, born Nova Scotia
Ann 13, born Nova Scotia
Florah, 11, born Nova Scotia
Catherine, 9, born Nova Scotia
Donald, 7, born Nova Scotia
Mary, 75, born Scotland

By 1881 Catherine is a widow. I don't think Nova Scotia death records are easy to come by online... but I hope someone who knows better will prove me wrong. And anyway, that early in Canada the parents' names wouldn't probably be given on the death cert, so no way to know if this is the Norman you're looking for.

All the best,
Sarah

[Alcluith]

Sarah,

Thank you for that it, is certainly worth a search to eliminate them, I guess I am back to the illegitimate son of a McNeil, father a McLeod but to-date never found any evidence that this was the case.

regards

Alcluith