Donald Gregory b.1860 - Where is he in 1911?

[Rockford]

Hi,

Taking advantage of the current free access on Ancestry to the England and Wales census, I've been looking for my 2 x Great Grandfather, Donald Gregory, born 1860 in Middlesex. Born to Scottish parents, I have him in the 1861, 1871, 1881 (possibly?), 1891 (all England) and 1901 (Wales) censuses, but I have not been able to find him in 1911 on Ancestry, no matter what search terms I use. I posted this query on Rootschat too and nobody can find him, so I wonder if any of the TS supersleuths can offer any advice.

Between Donald's birth and his marriage in 1890, the family moved from Middlesex to Potterspury (Northamptonshire) and Wolverton via Birmingham. However, Donald struck out on his own sometime in the late 1890s following the early death of his wife and in 1901 he is in South Wales, a widower, living with my great grandfather, Roland, on Merthyr Road, Pontypridd. Donald died at Ty Bryn workhouse, Tredegar in 1919 and I have his death certificate with Roland as the informant. Roland remained in Pontypridd from 1911 until his death in the 1960s. Donald is not with him in 1911.

I have tried various combinations of names, initials and birthplaces (including Scotland - as his father was born there and the possible sighting of him in the Royal Marines on the 1881 census has Scotland as the birthplace), but have had no luck. I have also looked at the Irish 1911 census (no matches) and the 1911 Scottish census (no matches for Donald Gregory aged 40 - 55). As he died in the Workhouse, I've also trawled through the 1911 census record for the Tredegar Workhouse for any likely candidates and can't find any.

There is a Donald Gregory - indexed as Donald Greyong in Potterspury in 1911 but this is definitely not my gggf. That Donald was a farmer born in Kent and there is no connection between his family and mine, although I do have his death certificate from 1921 ordered in error There is also a Donald McGregor living as a boarder in Llanelli, but although the right age, the birthplace is given as Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire and, although a widower, there is a crossed out '24' in the years married column. My gggf was only married for two years from 1890 - 1892 and hadn't remarried by 1901.

It has been suggested that as grandad Donald was a miner, he may have been on nightshift and therefore not counted. If someone could confirm whether this definitely would have been the case for those out of the house on Census night, it would be helpful.

As I now feel I am going round in circles, any help from fresh eyes would be appreciated!

Thanks

Brian

[Currie]

Hello Brian,

I wouldn’t give much weight to the shift work theory. Maybe that could be the case if the way of enumerating a census was to knock on everyone’s door at midnight and ask who lived there. In reality forms were handed out in the days before and collected after census night.

“Very precise instructions were given to try and ensure every one was counted once and only once. The rule was that someone should be included if they passed the night of Sunday April 2 1911 in this dwelling and were alive at midnight or arrived at the dwelling the following morning not having been enumerated elsewhere - intended to catch night workers.”

More here, including how people living in unconventional residences were enumerated, and the penalty for avoiding a census. http://www.1911census.org.uk/1911.htm

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that some men boycotted the census in sympathy with the suffragettes but I don’t know how anyone would know. There are certainly many cases of husbands aiding and abetting boycotts by women. In 1911 my brother-in-law’s ancestors lived in a household of three married men and no women. They were miners from a very left leaning community known as ‘Little Moscow”.

There were even the cases where only initials were entered, even for the surname. That was only supposed to be in the case of the insane but I wouldn’t be too surprised if some other individuals occasionally got that treatment. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16793&hilit=census+initials

There were probably quite a few ways in which people got to be counted without being given a name and in which others completely slipped through the net. More reasons here http://www.1911census.co.uk/content/def ... px?r=24&98

The National Library of Wales is currently working on digitising large numbers of Welsh newspaper and journals up to 1911. They will be freely accessible. It may be worth checking when they become available to see if he crops up there. http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=4723

The name appears to have a one in a million rarity. That Potterspury thing is some coincidence.

Hope that’s some use,
Alan

[Rockford]

Hi Alan

Thanks for the comments and info, which are very helpful.

Knowing my luck, his page is one of the water damaged ones, as I don't imagine he was a suffragette!

The 'other' Donald Gregory is quite a coincidence, but at the moment that's all it seems to be.
Best wishes

Brian

[trish1]

I thought the Donald Mcgregor was a possibility. His birth year is slightly out as is the years married (which perhaps was written as years since he married) - but there is no sign of a Donald McGregor born in Wales 1855-1865 on freebdm. In 1901 he said he was born in Scotland - so does his birthplace vary with every census? The writing for his birthplace on the 1911 census image seems to be different to most of the other writing on the sheet - added later?

Does his death certificate have an occupation? I don't know the area at all but as per google the distance Llanelly where Donald McGregor was in 1911 and Tredegar where your Donald died, is less than 9 miles (assuming I have the right localities)

Trish

[Rockford]

I thought the Donald Mcgregor was a possibility. His birth year is slightly out as is the years married (which perhaps was written as years since he married) - but there is no sign of a Donald McGregor born in Wales 1855-1865 on freebdm. In 1901 he said he was born in Scotland - so does his birthplace vary with every census? The writing for his birthplace on the 1911 census image seems to be different to most of the other writing on the sheet - added later?

Does his death certificate have an occupation? I don't know the area at all but as per google the distance Llanelly where Donald McGregor was in 1911 and Tredegar where your Donald died, is less than 9 miles (assuming I have the right localities)

Trish

Hi Trish,

I agree that Donald McGregor in Llanelli is the most likely candidate, as like you I can't see a birth that matches his entry or a record for Donald McGregor born Milford Haven in the 1901 census.

I am still peturbed by the birthplace of Milford Haven, though. I can't find my copies of Donald's earlier census records, but from memory his birthplace is consistent in 1861, 1871 and 1891. In 1881 the likely sighting of him at Chatham, Kent in the Royal Marines would rely on someone else completing the census form. With a Scottish father from Edinburgh and a Scottish mother from Aberdeen, if that entry is indeed my Donald, I'm sure he may well have sounded Scottish. I can't remember if he is lodging with someone in 1901, but it may be the case that whenever Donald (or presumably his father) has provided the information in earlier censuses it was correct, whereas where we are reliant on someone else, there is more chance of the information being incorrect - especially with a name like Donald Gregory/McGregor.

I've also checked deaths on FreeBMD and there don't appear to be any deaths recorded for a Donald McGregor in England and Wales that would fit exactly with the person in Llanelli in 1911 - there records for Cardiff (aged 82 in 1928) and Pontypridd (aged 48 in 1914), with the age of the latter being about 7 years out.

I haven't found anyone else in the family listed as McGregor - although my Granny always said she was related to Rob Roy! - but it is defintely possible that our Llanelli friend and gggf are one and the same. His occupation at 1901 and at his death in 1919 was coal miner (hewer), whereas in 1911 Donald McGregor's occupation is given as Platelayer - which I always associated with railways, but last night's WDYTYA had a census record where someone was described as 'Platelayer - Coal Mine', so anything's possible.

The locations/distances appear correct and you are in the right area, which is another pointer in the right direction.

Best wishes

Brian