Jannet Hardie Age 69 in 1861 census (brickwall)

[gbr37114]

My problem is that on the 1861 Scotland census (at 23 George Street, Glasgow), I see our gg grandfather (Keneth Bain age 22) is the grandson of Jannet Hardie. From here I am unable to establish how Jannet Hardie (nee Edmonstone) who married William Hardie on 3/6/1836 in Glasgow fits into Kenneth Bain's ancestry. I believe that Kenneth Bain's father was Hugh Bain (Hugh's parents are unknown and his mother was Margaret Williamson) (Margaret's death cert 29/11/1891 Dreghorn, Ayrshire, says her father was William Williamson and unknown mother) and Hugh and Margaret married on 19/5/1823 in Irvine, Ayrshire. I haven't found Hugh Bain's death (believed to be around 1851).
I thought that perhaps Janet Edmonstone had married a few times but I traced only the one marriage to William Hardie and she was aged about 39 (seems old) at that time and says she is a spinster.

I also thought that I should try to get Hugh Bain and Margaret Williamson births and marriage to establish parents names but have been unable to find any of those to help me.
I also note there is a Stepdaughter on the 1861 census called Euphemia Emlay born c 1827 Glasgow and she is the informant on Janet's death on 17/3/1864 at 23 George St, Glasgow named as Euphemia Hardie. There is also another grandson on the 1861 census called William Mckinlay aged 2 years. I thought there may be a spelling transcription error on Euphemia's surname and that perhaps it might have been also Mckinlay and not Emlay as shown. Have not found any marriage for Euphemia Hardie.

Getting Janet Edmonstone to fit into our Bain/Williamson family is my problem, so if anyone out there is able to help me, I would be very grateful.

[momat]

Hello,

On the 1851 Census Jannet Hardie is down at the same address aged 56 (through her age is out) with a 13 year old daughter Mary and 11 year old Son,can't decipher the name .
She would have been in her 40s having those !
She is a Widow with several Lodgers and her occupation is Lodging house keeper and she was born in Edinburgh .
The two children born in Barony Glasgow.
Further delving needed .

[momat]

http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
the 11 year old boy is listed as Wm (William ? )

[momat]

The same site has them along with Husband /Father at the same address in 1941



Piece: SCT1841/644 Place: Glasgow -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 11
Civil Parish: Glasgow Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: St Paul
Folio: 11 Page: 4
Address: George Street

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
HARDIE William M 40 Sawyer Outside Census County (1841)
HARDIE Janet F 40 Outside Census County (1841)
HARDIE Mary F 4 Lanarkshire
HARDIE William (Jnr) M 2 Lanarkshire
CAMPBELL Peter M 22 Box Maker Lanarkshire
HARVIE Robert M 17 Apprentice Outside Census County (1841)
POLLOCK James M 51 Reed Maker Lanarkshire
CONNOLLY Archd M 23 Tailor Ireland
MCGOWN George M 24 Tailor Outside Census County (1841)
TAINISH William M 40 Engineer Outside Census County (1841)
HARDIE Euphemia F 16 Independent Lanarkshire

[AndrewP]

Hi there,

A look at the 1861 census page shows the surname Emlay is most probably McKinlay, although the handwriting style makes it difficult to prove.

William's birth can be found as William McKinlay Hardie (illegitimate) in 1858. There is no father named on the birth certificate, but the middle name looks like a strong indication of paternity. There is no sign of any subsequent marriage of a Hardie bride to a McKinlay groom. There is however a marriage of Euphemia Hardie (spinster) in 1869, and she gives her address as 23 George Street, Glasgow. Confusingly, she names her parents as William Hardie and Euphemia Hardie, ms Purvis. On her death certificate, Euphemia's parents are again listed as William Hardie and Euphemia Hardie, ms Purvis. Her address on her death certificate was still 23 George Street, in 1898.

Kenneth Bain, aged 22 in 1861, born Dundonald, Ayrshire can be found aged 12 in the 1851 census with his widowed mother Margaret, and three of his older siblings. One of his older siblings, Anne, can be found in the baptismal register of Dundonald as daughter of Hugh Bain and Margaret Williamson. In the 1841 census, Kenneth is enumerated as Kenny (age 1) in Dundonald, with parents Hugh and Margaret and four of his older siblings.

On the 1851 Census Jannet Hardie is down at the same address aged 56 (through her age is out) with a 13 year old daughter Mary and 11 year old Son,can't decipher the name .

The 11 year old is Wm, as matches your findings in the 1841 census.

All the best,

AndrewP

[gbr37114]

Thank you all for all your helpful responses.
It was great that you were able to tell me that William McKinlay Hardie was illegitimate son of Euphemia Hardie in 1858 as that is something I did not know about. With the marriage of Euphemia Hardie in 1869, it states that she is 28 years old, but on the 1861 census my Euphemia Emlay is 34 years old, so this can't be the same lady. However that address is the same as on the 1861 census for Keneth Bain. So it is all very confusing.
I have also just seen an 1851 census record for a Janes Hardie age 27 Address 653 Gallowgate Street, Glasgow St John, and also in that same household is a Margaret Williamson age 60. Our Kenneth Bain's mother was Margaret Williamson, so maybe I have been following the wrong family. I can only be sure of the 1861 census where Keneth Bain is shown as a grandson to Jane Hardie living at 23 George Street and I know he was a carpenter/builder and is shown there as a joiner.
This new 1851 census I have found at least ties in a generation back to Margaret Williamson, although I thought she was born in Irvine c1805, so I can't feel confident about this one either. In any case this Janes Hardie would not be Kenneth's grandmother but would be a brother and sister from this record as Kenneth Bain's mother is Margaret Williamson. I am still making no sense of this puzzle trying to sort out grandparents for my Kenneth.

Thank you again for all your help Andrew and Maureen

[AndrewP]

Hi again,

How about the 1851 census in Dreghorn Ayrshire for Kenneth Bain, aged 12, born in Dundonald? You also need to view the previous page to get the whole family - head of the family: Margaret Bain, widow, born Irvine, aged 46.

All the best,

AndrewP

[gbr37114]

Hi Andrew
Thank you for that, yes I have now followed all the census records through and have now seen all who were living at 18 Corsehill Sq Dreghorn and note that Hugh Bain the father is missing presumed dead. I then followed Margaret Bain through until her death in 1891. I need to follow Kenneth Bain our direct ancestor through and that is when I had found him on the 1861 census with Jannet Hardie as a grandson. Kenneth married in 1864 in London and then emmigrated to Australia in 1865. I was just trying to get back another generation from Hugh and Margaret Bain (nee Williamson) to find out how Jannet Hardie connected with the family and that has been my problem.
I appreciate all your help so far.
Regards
Gail

[AndrewP]

... and note that Hugh Bain the father is missing presumed dead.

Hi Gail,

On that 1851 census page, you will see "W" marked against Margaret's name - she has declared herself as widowed, and as head of the household. As Hugh was present in 1841, that gives a 10 year range for his death. You may struggle to narrow down that date, unless you can find a family headstone.

All the best,

AndrewP

[gbr37114]

Thank you Andrew
Yes I see you are right about Margaret being a widow in the 1851 census. I have searched quite a bit for Hugh's death without success. Can you tell me of any worthwhile sites to look at regarding trying to find a headstone? As Hugh was a coal miner on the 1841 census and address was Shewalton Collery, I thought maybe a mine accident could be a possibility but looked about to see if I could find any information on this Shewalton Collery, but again had no success. I just need to keep looking and investigating more options. Thank you once again for you help.
Regards Gail