Help deciphering maiden name?.....

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catbug
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:17 pm
Location: UK

Help deciphering maiden name?.....

Post by catbug » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:50 pm

Hello,

Hope everyone is enjoying the pairty :D !

I wonder if anyone could look at an image I have posted to the gallery to help me read a name? The link is http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-268 . I have put little red boxes around the word I can't read - I think it might start with an Ra and end with an n but I can't even be sure of that. Unfortunately it's the same registrar's bad handwriting on both image extracts. I'm specifically looking for her death, which I can't find under her married name of Elizabeth Ayre and I don't have a clue what her maiden name says so therefore can find out absolutely nothing about her as yet, apart from that she died before 1861 (husband widowed on census) and after 1856 (4 year old child on the same census.).

Any help with deciphering this would be much appreciated :)

Cat
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joette
Global Moderator
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: Clydebank

Post by joette » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:58 pm

Hi I am no expert but it looks like Raven or Raren to me. Pity they didnt have typewriters the isnt it?
Im enjoying the party. :lol:
Researching:SCOTT,Taylor,Young,VEITCH LINLEY,MIDLOTHIAN
WADDELL,ROSS,TORRANCE,GOVAN/DALMUIR/Clackmanannshire
CARR/LEITCH-Scotland,Ireland(County Donegal)
LINLEY/VEITCH-SASK.Canada
ALSO BROWN,MCKIMMIE,MCDOWALL,FRASER.
Greer/Grier,Jenkins/Jankins
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LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:59 pm

Hi Catbug
I had a quick look and I think your assessment seems reasonable- it looks to me like Rarin or Raren in the first example and Rarn on the second.

Will get back to you if I have any further inspiration!
best wishes
Lesley


Found this on IGI
GEORGE AIR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH BROWN
Marriage: 29 APR 1859 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

...but it is stretching it more than a bit to see it as Brown, but who knows.... does that marriage date and place seem reasonable to you? Seems a bit late for that 4year old child! :wink:

Later: Aquick check on SP's surname search reveals NO Rarns, Rarins or Rarens in the entire database....

Do you think the registrar was not only awful at writing but also had a hearing problem ? Could he possibly have heard a name like Brown as "Rarn", not once but twice???? :shock:

Later Still:
I'm imagining now "what if" the enumerator got it wrong (its not unknown!)
There are two Elizabeth Ayres who died in the Leith area on SP:

1875 AYRE ELIZABETH [other names:]FREES, PETERS, F 28 LEITH NORTH EDINBURGH CITY MIDLOTHIAN 692/01 0043

1886 AYRE ELIZABETH JESSI F 0 LEITH SOUTH EDINBURGH CITY MIDLOTHIAN 692/02 0397

and one in St George, Edin:
1876 AYRE MARY ELIZABETH F 11 ST GEORGE EDINBURGH CITY MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0086
...BUT all too young by the looks of it.

However, there is also:
1886 AIR ELIZABETH BROWN F 49 CANONGATE EDINBURGH CITY MIDLOTHIAN 685/03 0015 who looks like she might be the one from the IGI entry above but don't have the credits to check now! I know the dates are not what you expected but purely on the strength that it looks like she was married to a George I'd be tempted to check this one out, if only to eliminate these "Airs" from enquiries...
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
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LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:02 am

Ah, curiosity got the better of me...
1886 AIR ELIZABETH BROWN F 49 CANONGATE EDINBURGH CITY MIDLOTHIAN 685/03 0015

I think we can maybe eliminate this one from the enquiry. Her husband George was a blacksmith, not a carter as we'd be hoping for...oh, well...back to the drawing board & maybe the enumerator was on-the-ball after all. :(


Best wishes
Lesley

You probably already have this - IGI notes 4 children to Duncan Ayre and Barbara Smith:

1. DUNCAN AIRE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 07 FEB 1817 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

2. GEORGE AIRE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 09 APR 1819 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

3. ELISABETH BRODIE AIRE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 09 FEB 1827

4. ELISABETH BRODIE AIRE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 23 FEB 1827 North Leith, Midlothian, Scotland

and there's a marriage in Leith with a George Ayre:
GEORGE AYRE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: ANN MCKAY
Marriage: 22 DEC 1856 Leith, Midlothian, Scotland

But Ann McKay does not sound or look anything like Elizabeth/Bessie Rarin/Rarn etc.
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
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JustJean
Posts: 2520
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:38 am

Hi Catbug...and Lesley

I've been doing some scrounging of mah oan!!

I found two more examples of the surname....one on the MC of Henry to Isabella which appears in a slight different hand but just as difficult to discern...still looks like it begins with an R though.....and now just found the MC for Henry's brother George to Ann in 1856.....and his mother's name.....are you ready.........

wait for it........

Ditto :lol:

I do believe it is written Ditto.. :shock: .the hand is quite good.

Ah'm shaking mah puir heid oan this!! :roll:

So I'm no closer to finding the name but there are two MC's out there if you're doing the whole family!

oh while I'm at it....

Here is Henry's wife on the 1881...obviously he was off carting somewhere

Dwelling: 22 St Andrews St
Census Place: South Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224020 GRO Ref Volume 692-2 EnumDist 38 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Isabella AYRE M 33 F Leith No Leith
Rel: Wife (Head)
Occ: Carters Wife

and this may well be Henry's brother George....and perhaps another brother?

Dwelling: 2 Old Bridge End
Census Place: North Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224021 GRO Ref Volume 692-2 EnumDist 60 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Mary ADAIR M 29 F Damillington, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Housekeeper
Hans ADAIR 12 M Tarbolton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Mary ADAIR 4 F So Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Jane ADAIR 3 F N Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
James LAING U 28 M Farlane, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: General Labourer
Joseph BROWN M 26 M England
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Ship Carpenter
George AYRE W 30 M N Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Carter
Charles AYRE U 23 M So Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Lodger Occ: Carter
John DOMONDOPLE M 37 M Triesta N B S, Austria
Rel: Visitor
Occ: Seaman

Looks like still some more sorting to do!!

Best wishes
Jean
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LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:55 am

Hi Jean and Catbug
Jean - we must have done a simultaneous download on Henry's marriage - darn!! I've uploaded it, awating clearance. Will post link as and when.

here it is:
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-270

- you are quite right though, it is equally obscure on that one, just looks like its got an extra letter though! It now looks like "Rartn" which is no help whatsoever....
I do believe it is written Ditto..
naaaw! really? can you upload it? This I have to see!! :?

best wishes
Lesley
Last edited by LesleyB on Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
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JustJean
Posts: 2520
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:57 am

Oh Dear Catbug

I'm afraid I underestimated Henry's location in 1881.......he's no a carting!


Institution: "Her Majestys Prison" Regent Road Edinburgh
Census Place: Edinburgh Greenside, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224003 GRO Ref Volume 685-3 EnumDist 96 Page 2
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Agnes WALLACE U 25 F Torpichen, Linlithgow, Scotland
Rel: Officer
Occ: Wardress
Jessie BLAKIE U 24 F Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Officer
Occ: Wardress
Margaret WALLACE U 32 F Torpichen, Linlithgow, Scotland
Rel: Officer
Occ: Wardress
Henrietta MC KENZIE U 25 F Beault, Inverness, Scotland
Rel: Officer
Occ: Wardress
Margaret GIBSON U 24 F Dalhousie, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Officer
Occ: Wardress
James BUCHANAN M 38 M Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Cab Man
William JOHNSTON M 48 M Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Clerk Mercantile
William MC ADAM U 23 M Kirkenner, Wigtown, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Labourer Agricultural
Henry WILLIAM M 21 M England
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Jeweller
William ROBERTSON U 38 M Barhead, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Carter
George HUNTER U 19 M England
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Cooper
Joseph KNIGHT M 22 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Tailor
James DODDS U 23 M England
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Carter
Charles BROWN M 25 M (British Subject), Italy
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Baker
John COLLINS U 26 M East Indies
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Musician
Henry AYRE M 30 M Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Carter
George RITCHIE U 22 M Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Labourer Bleach Field
William HAMILTON M 38 M Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Painter House
William OTTER U 22 M England
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Servant Groom
Daniel MC SHANE U 22 M England
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Tailor
Robert TAGGART U 21 M Dalkieth, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Tailor
James Constantins O CONNOR U 17 M Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Tailor
Samuel MC LAUCHAN U 39 M Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Tailor
Robert MILLER U 30 M Holytown, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Prisoner
Occ: Miner Coal

Best wishes
Jean
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LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:01 am

Well, well...

I'd love to see what grand mess our friend Mr Archer the registrar would make of Mr.DOMONDOPLE featured above. Lets hope he didnae die in South Leith or his descendants probably aren't in with a hope of tracing him!! :lol:

best wishes
Lesley
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
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nelmit
Posts: 4002
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by nelmit » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:04 am

JustJean wrote:Hi Catbug...and Lesley

I've been doing some scrounging of mah oan!!

I found two more examples of the surname....one on the MC of Henry to Isabella which appears in a slight different hand but just as difficult to discern...still looks like it begins with an R though.....and now just found the MC for Henry's brother George to Ann in 1856.....and his mother's name.....are you ready.........

wait for it........

Ditto :lol:

I do believe it is written Ditto.. :shock: .the hand is quite good.

Ah'm shaking mah puir heid oan this!! :roll:

So I'm no closer to finding the name but there are two MC's out there if you're doing the whole family!

oh while I'm at it....

Here is Henry's wife on the 1881...obviously he was off carting somewhere

Dwelling: 22 St Andrews St
Census Place: South Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224020 GRO Ref Volume 692-2 EnumDist 38 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Isabella AYRE M 33 F Leith No Leith
Rel: Wife (Head)
Occ: Carters Wife

and this may well be Henry's brother George....and perhaps another brother?

Dwelling: 2 Old Bridge End
Census Place: North Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224021 GRO Ref Volume 692-2 EnumDist 60 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Mary ADAIR M 29 F Damillington, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Housekeeper
Hans ADAIR 12 M Tarbolton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Mary ADAIR 4 F So Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Jane ADAIR 3 F N Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
James LAING U 28 M Farlane, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: General Labourer
Joseph BROWN M 26 M England
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Ship Carpenter
George AYRE W 30 M N Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Carter
Charles AYRE U 23 M So Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Lodger Occ: Carter
John DOMONDOPLE M 37 M Triesta N B S, Austria
Rel: Visitor
Occ: Seaman

Looks like still some more sorting to do!!

Best wishes
Jean
Hi All,

Yes I too have been looking around.

I think this is them on 1841 census thanks to FREECEN.

Piece: SCT1841/692 Place: Leith-Midlothian Enumeration District: 20
Civil Parish: South Leith Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 20 Page: 6
Address: Kirkgate

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
AYRE George M 25 Carter Midlothian
AYRE Elizabeth F 25 Midlothian
AYRE Jessy F 2 Midlothian
- - F 2m Midlothian
CAMPBELL Ann F 30 Female Servant Out Of Place Midlothian

Had a look for Jessy (Janet or Jane ) on the IGI but no luck.

I also saw the Charles born approx. 1857 but he appears to be the son of George Ayre and Jane McKay.

BTW Jean, Henry was living in HMP, Edinburgh in 1881.

Regards,
Annette M
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JustJean
Posts: 2520
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:45 am

Ok...I'm back.....finally!

If I've survived the backroom this may be the image showing "Ditto".....enjoy :lol:

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-271
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