Looking for Carlyle.....

[carlyleg]

Looking for William M. Carlyle, born 1845 Ayrshire. He had a brother James and sister Elizabeth. Emigrated to America before 1871. Not sure of his parents' names. Any help on parents, siblings, grandparents will be appreciated.

[nelmit]

Looking for William M. Carlyle, born 1845 Ayrshire. He had a brother James and sister Elizabeth. Emigrated to America before 1871. Not sure of his parents' names. Any help on parents, siblings, grandparents will be appreciated.

Hello and welcome Carlyleg,

If you search the 1861 census on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk there is one William Carlyle in Ayrshire in the right age bracket. Hopefully he will be yours and living with his parents.
There are only 16 Carlyles in Ayrshire in 1861.

Annette M

m

[Jack]

Hi Carlyleg,
Just to add to what Annette found; the census names are from indexes only - sorry no more details. [now added]
It would appear that father Robert CARLYLE married more than once; son William being from the 1st marriage.
--
ROBERT CARLYLE
JANET MOONIE
Marriage: 15 DEC 1843 Dailly, Ayr, Scotland (OPR extract)
&
ROBERT CARLYLE
ELIZABETH HUNTER
Marriage: 30 JUL 1854 Maybole, Ayr, Scotland (LDS submission)
==
1851 cens 600 (585) Ed 4 p 11 (Kirkmichael)
Mackailston Cottage Houses.
Robert CARLILE [sic], head, marr, 30, farm labourer, b Girvan, AYR
Janet CARLILE, wife, marr, 30, labourers wife, b Dailly, AYR
William CARLILE, son, 6, do [sic], b Dailly, AYR
James CARLILE, son, 4, do [sic] b Dailly, AYR
Janet CARLILE, daur, 1½, do [sic], b Kirkmichael, AYR
&
1861 cens 601 Ed 7 p 1 (Kirkoswald)
South Threave Cottages.
Robert CARLYLE, head, marr, 46, ploughman, b Ayrshire [no town given]
Elizabeth CARLYLE, wife, marr, 41, ploughman's wife, b Ayrshire
William CARLYLE, son, 16, labourer, b Ayrshire
James CARLYLE, son, 14, labourer, b Ayrshire
Jannet CARLYLE, daur, 11, ---------- b Ayrshire
Elizabeth CARLYLE, daur, 5, -------- b Ayrshire
==
Jack

[JustJean]

Hi Carlyleg

Not much more to add but I did search the BIVRI disk set hoping to pick up William's birth. Not there but the one for his sister was....so now you at least have her DOB as well as Christening....

CARLISLE, Jenet Christening
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 9 Aug 1849
Christening Date: 29 Aug 1849 Recorded in: Kirkoswald, Ayrshire, Scotland
Father: Robert CARLISLE
Mother: Jenet MOONEY
Source: FHL Film 1041391 Dates: 1694 - 1855

Do you know if William's father and siblings stayed in Scotland or did they all pack up and come to America?

Best wishes
Jean

[JustJean]

Hi again Carlyleg

Now for a little speculation.....this might be Robert Carlyle on the 1841 census.....

CARLISLE Robert M 20 Ag Lab Outside Census County (1841) Straiton

He's living with another fellow different surname age 35 so doubtful there is a connection.......but this is even more likely to be his bride to be...

Piece: SCT1841/585 Place: Dailly-Ayrshire Enumeration District: 2
Civil Parish: Dailly Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island:
Folio: 0 Page: 1
Address: Currah



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
EASDALE Andrew M 30 Bower Ayrshire
EASDALE Martha F 30 Ayrshire
EASDALE Robert M 7 Ayrshire
EASDALE Thomas M 5 Ayrshire
EASDALE Mary F 4 Ayrshire
EASDALE William M 2 Ayrshire
EASDALE Jeanie Scot F 1m Ayrshire
MONIE Jannet F 20 Female Servant Ayrshire

there is another household in Dailly that may or may not be related to your Jannet.....

Piece: SCT1841/585 Place: Dailly-Ayrshire Enumeration District: 9
Civil Parish: Dailly Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island:
Folio: 0 Page: 22
Address: Dailly Village



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MONEY Elizabeth F 50 Ayrshire
MONEY Isabella F 15 Sewer Ayrshire
MONEY Martha F 10 Ag Lab Ayrshire
WAUGH Jean F 50 Travelling Merchant Ireland
JOHNSTON John M 18 Lodger Ireland


All census data obtained from the FREECen site.....

Best wishes
Jean

[JustJean]

one more tiny wee question.....what was William M. Carlyle's middle name??....wasn't Mooney or McGie by any chance......?

Best wishes
Jean

[carlyleg]

Many thanks for your excellent help Annette, Jack and Jean. Replying to Jean's questions:

(1) Concerning William's middle initial, I don't know what it stands for. It comes from an entry in a U. S. census where William is listed as W. M. Carlyle. It's possible that was a mistake -- perhaps someone mistook the abbreviation for William (Wm.) as W. M. Then again, if Janet Moonie (or Mooney) was indeed his mother then William's middle name could well be Moonie or Mooney.

(2) Robert Carlyle of Kirkoswald died in 1862, so he obviously didn't go to America. I found an Elizabeth Carlyle listed in the 1871 census living in Glasgow with two daughters (Jessie and Elizabeth) and Elizabeth Dick, age 87, listed as mother of Elizabeth Carlyle. The birthplace of the two daughters was Kirkoswald and their ages correspond with the ages of the two daughters on the 1861 census. Jessie is perhaps a variation of Jannet or Janet or Jennet. The name Dick puzzles me. If Elizabeth's maiden name was Hunter then you would think her mother's name would be Hunter, but perhaps Elizabeth Dick outlived more than one husband. The birthplace of Elizabeth Carlyle is listed as Dailly, Ayrshire and the birthplace of the older Elizabeth is listed as Girvan, Ayrshire. The older Elizabeth died in 1871 (following the census, apparently) at age 88. I have not found a trace of James after the 1861 census. William married in Pennsylvania in 1871.

Again, many thanks to all of you. I was surprised to get such wonderful help so fast. If you run across any more Carlyle info I'd be grateful to have it.

George

[Andy]

In 1880 William was in Texas staying with brother-in-law Thomas Parker.

Thomas PARKER Self M Male W 36 ENG Farmer ENG ENG
Agnes PARKER Wife M Female W 33 PERTHSHIRE Keeping House PERTHSHIRE PERTHSHIRE
Anna J. PARKER Dau S Female W 11 PA CUMBERLAND PERTHSHIRE
Mary PARKER Dau S Female W 7 PA CUMBERLAND PERTHSHIRE
Alexandre PARKER Son S Male W 5 PA CUMBERLAND PERTHSHIRE
Joseph PARKER Son S Male W 2 TX CUMBERLAND PERTHSHIRE
William J. PARKER Son S Male W 6M TX CUMBERLAND PERTHSHIRE
William CARLYLE BroL M Male 34 AYRSHIRE Farmer AYRSHIRE AYRSHIRE
Margaret CARLYLE SisterL M Female W 28 PA PERTHSHIRE PERTHSHIRE
Jennet CARLYLE Niece S Female W 7 PA AYRSHIRE PA
Anna CARLYLE Niece S Female W 5 PA AYRSHIRE PA
Robert A. CARLYLE Nephew S Male W 3 PA AYRSHIRE PA
Elizabeth J. CARLYLE Other S Female W 3M TX AYRSHIRE PA

(I originally couldn't find William as born Scotland but the Ayrshire birthplace stuck out like a sore thumb and is quite unusual on American censuses to have a foreign county of birth)

Couldn't find Agnes Wilson (Margaret's sister) in the 1871 census.

William and Margaret had 10 children but only 9 lived to 1900.

[Jack]

Hi George,
Just to say census details now added on earlier post.
Jessie is often used for Janet.
Could Elizabeth HUNTER's mother's maiden name have been Elizabeth DICK?
What was her parents' names on her 1871 DC? presume no mention of a 2nd marriage?
Jack

[carlyleg]

Reply to Jack: It's been a while since I visited Talking Scot. I expected an e-mail when there were new postings on this subject but obviously I misunderstood.

Anyhow, according to death records, Elizabeth Dick was the widow of Gilliam Dick. There was no mention of a second marriage. Her parents were Robert Blair and Mary Ferguson. Robert Carlyle's parents were John Carlyle and Janet Campbell. According to the 1871 census, Elizabeth Dick was born in Girvan, presumably around 1784. Elizabeth Hunter (?) Carlyle was born in Dailly around 1821.

According to the 1881 census, Elizabeth Carlyle, a widow age 62, born in Darly, Ayrshire, was living in Barony, Lanark with an unmarried daughter, Elizabeth Carlyle, (age 23. born in Kirkoswald) and an unmarried brother, James Stirling (age 22, born in Ireland.) The ages of the women are about right but the Stirling addition maks no sense to me.

George