Aaaarg! My brick wall.....

susieq · Post by **susieq** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:19 pm

We all have them, but I am reaching the end of my tether with this one!

I am trying to find the death cert of my 3x grand father. His son was born in 1864 and died in 1865 and the father was alive at the time of the death certificate, I have found his wife, living with their daughters in the 1881 census, by which time she was a widow and had reverted to her maiden name, so you would have thought with a name like Silvester Mc Adam his death certificate would have been easy to find, but oh no!
They lived in Edinburgh, Canongate. I realise that he may not have died in Scotland but it is doing me in, I can't find their marraige either, her name was Mary Fitzpatrick.
I have found her death certificate (the poor woman died from the effect's of alchoholism) I wonder why?

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:31 pm

Deaths: Try SYlvester 1877 in Canongate (he went the same way as the wife.

I actually used S?lv* M*adam.

They were having Children by 1856 so perhaps they were married before 1855. Here are the children:

1. GRACE MC ADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 10 SEP 1861 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
2. MARY MACADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 20 JUN 1859 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
3. ELIZABETH MC ADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 19 JAN 1873 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
4. MARGARET MC ADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 22 MAR 1868 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
5. SILVESTER MC ADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 25 JAN 1864 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
6. ANN MC ADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 14 MAY 1856 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
7. ANN MC ADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 30 APR 1866 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
8. AGNES MC ADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 NOV 1871 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

Plus (perhaps) one other in 1877-ish

Dwelling: 4 Hasties Close
Census Place: Edinburgh Lady Yesters, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224004 GRO Ref Volume 685-4 EnumDist 1 Page 13
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Mary MC ADAM W 52 F Edinburgh St Giles
Rel: Head
Occ: Charwoman
Grace MC ADAM U 20 F Edinburgh St Giles
Rel: Daur
Occ: Charwoman
Anne MC ADAM 14 F Edinburgh St Giles
Rel: Daur
Occ: Message Girl
Susan MC ADAM 4 F Edinburgh St Giles
Rel: Daur

Bang goes another brick wall

susieq · Post by **susieq** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:18 pm

Andy you are an ANGEL!

I'm going to be really cheeky now! Did you have a look at his death certificate, if so could you tell me how old he was and his parent's names?
Susan.

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:56 am

Since I was using my own credits:

SYlvester is clearly spelled Silvester on the death cert he was a Fish Dealer living at 18 Blackfriar Street.

Age is given as 45

Parents: Father Silvester McAdam, Hawker (Dec). Mother Agnes Rice (Dec)

He died of Pneumonia/Alcoholism the death was reported by daughter Helen Collins.

Helen McAdam married James Collins in Canongate in 1872. Here they are in 1881:

Dwelling: 30 Old Assembly Close
Census Place: Edinburgh New North, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224004 GRO Ref Volume 685-4 EnumDist 9 Page 9
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James COLLINS M 28 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: General Labourer
Helen COLLINS M 30 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Fish Hawker
Catherine COLLINS U 8 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Ralph WILSON U 39 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: General Labourer
Susan WILSON U 40 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Charwoman
Margaret WILSON U 12 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Scholar
William WILSON U 2 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Boarder

This shows that Silvester and Mary were producing children by at least 1851, well before Statutory marriages were reported.

Silvester had a sister, Ann, born about 1843 in Edinburgh (She's with the family in the 1871 census) she was "Lame from 6 months old". She died in 1872 as reported by niece Helen McAdam (same parents named)

The age given at death leads to a birth date of about 1832 so if Helen was born in 1851 Silvester and Mary married quite young.

As you already know Sylvester isn't that common a name. In 1881 there is another Silvester Mc Adam:

Dwelling: 13 Old Sneddon St
Census Place: Paisley Middle Church, Renfrew, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203582 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 38 Page 21
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Henry MC ADAM M 60 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Cabinet Maker
Elizabeth MC ADAM M 47 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Dressmaker
Silvester MC ADAM U 14 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Provision Mercht Message Boy
Maggie MC ADAM M 20 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Seamans Wife
Bessie MC ADAM U 12 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Ann MC ADAM U 8 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar

Although it says that Henry was born in Glasgow there is a Henry of the right age in 1861 in Canongate.

There is no sign of Silvester, Mary, Helen/Ellen/*el*n, Agnes (a daughter who died in Canongate aged 6 years six months in 1862) in the 1861 census. This is strange because Grace McAdam was born in 1861 not long after the census.

The family appear to have been Catholic and despite Silvester and Mary stating they were born in Edinburgh there must be a real possibility of strong Irish connections (especially with a name like Fitzpatrick).

A witness at Helen McAdam's marriage was Felix Fitzpatrick:

Dwelling: 4 Simpsons Court
Census Place: Edinburgh Greenside, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0223995 GRO Ref Volume 685-2 EnumDist 8 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Felix FITZPATRICK M 38 M
Rel: Head
Occ: Shoemaker
Maggie FITZPATRICK M 32 F Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Wife
John FITZPATRICK 11 M Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Ellen FITZPATRICK 10 F Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Dau
Occ: Scholar
Maggie FITZPATRICK 8 F Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Dau
Occ: Scholar
Henry FITZPATRICK 7 M Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
James W. FITZPATRICK 6 M Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Felix FITZPATRICK 3 M Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son

Brother of Mary who reported her death in 1883.

Felix married Margaret McPhail in 1868 so a real possibility of Antrim connections.

According to various birth certs Sylvester and Mary married 12th July 1851 in Edinburgh. There may be extant Catholic records available.

Hope this was of help.

susieq · Post by **susieq** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:13 pm

Andy your are a STAR

I was very cheeky and I am truly sorry

I can't thank you enough, if I can do any thing in return ??????
Susan.

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:31 pm

By the by, just because I don't believe in coincidences I checked out the death of Henry McAdams who was living in Paisley in 1881. He died in 1892 parents:

Sylvester and Agnes Rice .... so a brother of Sylvester!!!!

Henry was married twice, first in Edinburgh to Anna McGlashan in 1838 with at least the following children:

1. EDWARD MCADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 11 MAR 1858 Clyde, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
2. ANN MCADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 19 APR 1855 Calton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Ann's birth cert states that she was Ann McGlashan's 6th child, 1 boy and two girls living and 2 boys dead. Ann (McGlashan) McAdam died in 1859.

Then to Elizabeth Wright in 1864 with whom he produced:

1. ELIZABETH MCADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 27 JUN 1868 Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland
2. SILVESTER MCADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 29 JUN 1866 Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland
3. WILLIAM MCADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 27 FEB 1865 Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland
4. ANN MCADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 29 MAR 1873 Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland
5. AGNES MCADAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 01 SEP 1870 Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:44 pm

Perhaps SKS could check out the 1841 and 1851 censuses for Henry and Sylvester. Henry was probably around Glasgow in 1851.

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:51 pm

There is an extract of a marriage of a Silvester McAdam to an Ann Duffie in 1817 in Glasgow.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:18 am

Hi Susan & Andy,
Can't see a Silvester McADAM in Glasgow 1841 or 1851, but possibly the family were in Edinburgh by 1841 (Henry married there 1838).
And can't see Henry in Glasgow 1851 either - still in Edinburgh?
This looks like him in 1861, between the death of 1st wife Anna in 1859 & his re-marriage in Abbey Parish, Paisley 1864 to Elizabeth.
--
1861 cens 644-4 Ed 95 p 5 (Glasgow City - St. Andrews)
Greendyke Street Model Lodging House.
4. Henry McADAM, lodger, widower, 39, cabinet maker, b Glasgow, LKS
--
But where are children Ann (b1855) & Edward (b1858)?
Can't see them in all Lanarkshire 1861, and there might have been older siblings too still around.

Jack

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:06 am

Hi Jack,

Thanks for that. I had Henry from 1861, two son, Edward and Hery jr., are close by but I've not looked for the rest of the children (5 more barring deaths) that I know of (not my lot anyway).

Thanks again for trying, think Susan's brick wall is well and truly powdered (let alone holey) by now.