1851 census .....

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HK

Middleton's

Post by HK » Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:17 am

Hi Bob,I think my Middleton has turned to a Welsh.I may have Andrew Haldane's death cert. On it his first wife is Elizabeth Welsh.So I looked up his second marriage and Elizabeth Welch's death and so far it all fits.The only problem being the parents ,namely his mother's maiden name on his wedding cert.As both his parents were dead he may have made a mistake.I'll take a page from Father John's book and look for more proof either way but I think I'm right this time.I'll let you know.
HK

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:20 am

Hi Heather

The IGI gives an Agnes HALDON born 5 April 1857 in Hawick to Andrew HALDON and Elizabeth WELSH. But there's no sign of any other children to this couple, not even your Robert, under any spelling variations.

Mary

Andy
Posts: 735
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:06 am
Location: Gourock

Post by Andy » Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:25 pm

Since it's the Panto season:

OH YES THERE ARE!:

1. AGNES HALDON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 05 APR 1857 Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland

2. MARY HOLDON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 18 NOV 1855 Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland

3. MARGARET HOLDON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 18 NOV 1858 Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland

4. JESSIE HOLDON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 29 APR 1860 Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland


Including a very helpful one for 1855
Searching for Keogh, Kelly, Fitzgerald, Riddell, Stewart, Wilson, McQuilkin, Lynch, Boyle, Cairney, Ross, King, McIlravey, McCurdy, Drennan and Woods (to name but a few).

Also looking for any information on Rathlin Island, County Antrim, Ireland.

Andy
Posts: 735
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:06 am
Location: Gourock

Post by Andy » Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:47 pm

I've not checked but this could be another son:

Dwelling: 6 Slitrig Bank
Census Place: Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224040 GRO Ref Volume 789 EnumDist 7 Page 13
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Andrew HOLDEN M 29 M Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Woolyarn Twister (Manager)
Mary HOLDEN M 28 F Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Andrew HOLDEN 7 M Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Jane HOLDEN 8 m F Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Betsy INGLIS (HOLDEN) 9 F Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Step Daur
Occ: Scholar
Francis LINTON U 18 F Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Picker & Mender (Woolen)

And perhaps Thomas who registered the death of Andrew Holden:
Dwelling: 16 Wellington Street
Census Place: Wilton, Roxburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224044 GRO Ref Volume 810 EnumDist 6 Page 23
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas HOLDEN M 32 M Dumfries, Dumfries, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Currier (Journeyman)
Ann HOLDEN M 28 F Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Jessie HOLDEN 5 F Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Elizabeth HOLDEN 1 F Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Searching for Keogh, Kelly, Fitzgerald, Riddell, Stewart, Wilson, McQuilkin, Lynch, Boyle, Cairney, Ross, King, McIlravey, McCurdy, Drennan and Woods (to name but a few).

Also looking for any information on Rathlin Island, County Antrim, Ireland.

Andy
Posts: 735
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:06 am
Location: Gourock

Post by Andy » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:16 pm

There was an Elizabeth born 1845 in Dumfries (so Thomas is looking good)
Charles born 1847 in Dumfries
Thomas born 1848 in Dumfries

There is a good chance that Andrew had brothers called Alexander, James and possibly William.

Do these searches using H*LD*N* on the main site.

Andrew and Elizabeth Welsh were married in 1844 in Dumfries
Searching for Keogh, Kelly, Fitzgerald, Riddell, Stewart, Wilson, McQuilkin, Lynch, Boyle, Cairney, Ross, King, McIlravey, McCurdy, Drennan and Woods (to name but a few).

Also looking for any information on Rathlin Island, County Antrim, Ireland.

Andy
Posts: 735
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:06 am
Location: Gourock

Post by Andy » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:00 pm

I've got a feeling you're going to end up in Ireland for this lot. Andrew's parents were (as you probably know from the death cert) Andrew Holden and Mary McNaught/McKnight both very Irish names.

Andrew, who married Elizabeth Welsh, had a sister, Jane who died in Dumfries.

Andrew's father is very likely be the 69 year old Nail Maker in the 1851 census on the Dumfries site: http://www.dumgal.gov.uk who was staying with his sister, Mary Armstrong.

Unhelpfully Andrew seems to have died before 1855 but Mary lasted until 1859!!! So you can find out the parents (looks even more Irish).

If you want to find out more concentrate earlier searches in TROQUEER
Searching for Keogh, Kelly, Fitzgerald, Riddell, Stewart, Wilson, McQuilkin, Lynch, Boyle, Cairney, Ross, King, McIlravey, McCurdy, Drennan and Woods (to name but a few).

Also looking for any information on Rathlin Island, County Antrim, Ireland.

HK

Post by HK » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:04 pm

Thank you Mary E and Andy.I had found Andrew and Elizabeth's marriage last night in Dumfries and a birth for Thomas 3 Nov.1848 Dumfries.I was just going to try again for some siblings.
Why did I find all this so difficult?Well here's a bit of advice I recieved (and did not heed obviously) Check all info. no matter where you get it.
I keep a list of cert. that might fit and had a look at one of the very first ones I ever found back in Oct.I can't remember exactly why I discounted a Death cert.for Andrew Haldane but it must have been because my original info.came from my cousin and he had told me of Andrew's wife Elizabeth Middleton but no mention of a second wife.So the mention of an Elizabeth Welsh (to be fair the document is not very clear and I could easily imagine Middleton where it reads Welsh.)That and Robert's marriage to Jane McIlwee lists his Mum as Middleton.Sooo... the other night when I came across this cert.(Andrew's Death) again I took a page from Davie's book and played Devils advocate.It wasn't long before I started finding bits and pieces.Earlier the week I was going through the 1841 cencus and found Andrew living with a Brown family in Ancrum.I knew for a 1881 census that Robert was born in Roxburgh.I also realized that I had never looked up the 1891 census as my cousin had sent me the list of Robert's children.Really stupid and probably my biggest mistake.I should have done it as soon as I realized that my cousin hadn't known of Robert's 2 little girls who had died of scarlet fever just before the birth of his first son Robert.He had assumed that as there was no others in the 1881 census that the couple had only the 5 children.On the 1891 census I found Robert born in Hawick,Rox.That led me back to the death of Andrew that I had tucked away and found he was born and died in Hawick also.
So thank you again to Mary and Andy.You've given me quite a bit of info.to look at,and thank you Davie for teaching me a valuable lesson.
HK

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:14 pm

Well done, Andy! Thought I'd tried all possible permutations but missed that one - probably relying too heavily on the fact that the IGI throws up a range of variations!

Mary

HK

Andrew Haldane

Post by HK » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:30 pm

Thanks again Andy and Mary.Hadn't had any time today to really look at all the info.you've collected for me.(Grocery day my fav. :roll: )Now its homework ,storytime and of to bed for young Robin(his father wanted to call him Rob Roy)Then if I'm lucky I might get a peak.I'm fair itching to chech all these maybe ancestors out.Isn't it great to have the forum back again.I'll have to raise a glass at Christmas for the powers that be that set TalkingScot in motion.

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Re: Andrew Haldane

Post by DavidWW » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:58 pm

HeatherK wrote:Thanks again Andy and Mary.Hadn't had any time today to really look at all the info.you've collected for me.(Grocery day my fav. :roll: )Now its homework ,storytime and of to bed for young Robin(his father wanted to call him Rob Roy)Then if I'm lucky I might get a peak.I'm fair itching to chech all these maybe ancestors out.Isn't it great to have the forum back again.I'll have to raise a glass at Christmas for the powers that be that set TalkingScot in motion.
I can give you my postal address for a bottle of Linkwood in the post; I prefer the 40 year old !! :mrgreen:

Davie

PS Not sure what Dave's tipple is !