Hi Jenny,
I've started a new post - hope you don't mind.
I don't want to interrupt David's excellent articles on GROS/SP & *wildcards*!
You'd mentioned,
>...There are also Blains in Greenock whom I have been unable to find via Scotlands People, but know they are there...
>...William Blain in Greenock... There should be one aged around 14, and his father,
> also William Blain, may still be alive. Mother was Mary, and there were older siblings, one of them (John) now married....
What are the names & birth years for all of William & Mary BLAIN's children?
Do you have any of the family on censuses with their birthplaces?
Was John BLAIN a joiner? Did he marry a Euphemia STEWART?
Ta - Jack
Blain family Greenock .....
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Re: Blain family Greenock
Indeed best to have a separate post thread for this! This is where it gets complicated...Jack wrote:Hi Jenny,
What are the names & birth years for all of William & Mary BLAIN's children?
Do you have any of the family on censuses with their birthplaces?
Was John BLAIN a joiner? Did he marry a Euphemia STEWART?
Ta - Jack
Info I have:
1. John BLAIN married Helen CRACKEN 16 NOV 1845, in Greenock East parish. (He was helpfully noted as being John Maxwell Blain in this record.) However I'd noted the marriage of a John Blain to Euphemia STEWART in 1850 and wondered if it was the same John - which may well be the case. I do not know his occupation. However he was born Feb 1820 so would be 31 for the 1851 census. He was born in Stranraer. He was not in his parents' household (Stranraer, Sun Street) in the 1841 census. I have found a sailor John Blain appearing in the Greenock 1841 census, but of course have no guarantee that is him.
2. BLAIN children in the 1841 census (Stranraer) with their ages are:
Jess then aged approx 20 (i.e. 15-20) in 1841.
Thomas then aged 12
Peter then aged 10
Robert then aged 6
William then aged '2' (see note at '4' below)
3. Parents are William then aged 45, occupation given as agricultural labourer, birth county Wigtownshire, and Mary aged 40. (1841 approximations apply to these ages, of course, and ag. labourer covers almost everything on the farm.) William's occupation was later given as 'gardener' on his son William junior's marriage record.
4. All birthplaces are listed in the 1841 census transcription as 'unknown', except the elder William's which is Wigtownshire. I have not seen an image so this 'unknown' may be a blank on the form or may be even ditto marks or anything.
However the birth of William junior is registered in both Stranraer and Inch parishes - and he will have been 3, not 2, in the 1841 census, and is given as 23 in the 1861 census, for which I have the record, though 32 in 1871.... His and John's are the only births for which I can find records - John born 1820, William born 1837 baptised 1838, both Wigtownshire. William's birthplace is variously given as Stranraer and and Greenock, in later censuses!
5. So, I'm looking for:
Jess now aged 25-29, though very possibly with a different last name, making her untraceable, though I have not found a marriage for her..
Thomas 22-ish
Peter 20-ish
Robert 16-ish
William 13-ish
And their parents William and Mary, who were dead by 1860 but would have been around 55-60 and 50-55 in 1851, if they were living then. I have no further information on them, and am, of course, pursuing this on the hope to find ages and possible confirmation of birth counties! Their marriage was actually in Donaghadee, ratified by the Kirk Session in Inch, and so it's possible that one or other was actually from Ireland, although it seems that quite a number of people did go 'on the boat' across the Irish Sea for their wedding...
Jenny
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Re: Blain family Greenock
Hi Jenny,
Your BLAINs are proving very elusive - can't even find them Renfrewshire, never mind Greenock.
(i've also tried Ayrshire, Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire)
They could be in Greenock, just for the simple reason that most indexes are not always correct.
But it would mean a trawl through the census films in the hope you do find them.
The only possible family member i can see in 1851 Greenock is a Thomas.
And if him, maybe he was the only one of the family to be in Greenock by 1851? Brother William arriving later?
Could the family have moved from Stranraer to Ireland some time after 1841? Or to another Scottish County?
By the way, the John BLAIN who married Euphemia STEWART in 1850 is a 25yr old joiner born in the town of Ayr.
==
1851 cens 564-1 (434) Ed 11 p 5 (Greenock East)
Arthur Street, Allan's Land.
Jean Begg SIMPSON, head, u/m, 44, lodging house keeper, b Grangemouth, STI
James BRODIE, lodger, u/m 21, apprentice ship carpenter, b Firfasol? Stronsay
Thomas BLANE, lodger, u/m 22, apprentice ship carpenter, b Stranraer, WIG
==
You probably know of this Robert (44), as you already have your William (41) in West Greenock 1881.
1881 Census Place: Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland
Dwelling: 63 Brown St
Source: FHL Film 0203586 GRO Ref Volume 574 EnumDist 12 Page 31
Robert DAVIE M 61 M Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Baker
Janet DAVIE M 49 F Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife
Elizabeth C.B. DAVIE U 20 F Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Assistant Elem Teacher
Marion DAVIE 13 F Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Robert BLAIN U 44 M Stranraer, Wigtown, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Blacksmith
==
The only other way is maybe to trace the family names backwards from their DCs (Scotland?).
Like if they'd been married, and where/when any children were born.
==
Just sorry i've been unable to help any.
Jack
Your BLAINs are proving very elusive - can't even find them Renfrewshire, never mind Greenock.
(i've also tried Ayrshire, Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire)
They could be in Greenock, just for the simple reason that most indexes are not always correct.
But it would mean a trawl through the census films in the hope you do find them.
The only possible family member i can see in 1851 Greenock is a Thomas.
And if him, maybe he was the only one of the family to be in Greenock by 1851? Brother William arriving later?
Could the family have moved from Stranraer to Ireland some time after 1841? Or to another Scottish County?
By the way, the John BLAIN who married Euphemia STEWART in 1850 is a 25yr old joiner born in the town of Ayr.
==
1851 cens 564-1 (434) Ed 11 p 5 (Greenock East)
Arthur Street, Allan's Land.
Jean Begg SIMPSON, head, u/m, 44, lodging house keeper, b Grangemouth, STI
James BRODIE, lodger, u/m 21, apprentice ship carpenter, b Firfasol? Stronsay
Thomas BLANE, lodger, u/m 22, apprentice ship carpenter, b Stranraer, WIG
==
You probably know of this Robert (44), as you already have your William (41) in West Greenock 1881.
1881 Census Place: Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland
Dwelling: 63 Brown St
Source: FHL Film 0203586 GRO Ref Volume 574 EnumDist 12 Page 31
Robert DAVIE M 61 M Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Baker
Janet DAVIE M 49 F Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife
Elizabeth C.B. DAVIE U 20 F Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Assistant Elem Teacher
Marion DAVIE 13 F Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Robert BLAIN U 44 M Stranraer, Wigtown, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Blacksmith
==
The only other way is maybe to trace the family names backwards from their DCs (Scotland?).
Like if they'd been married, and where/when any children were born.
==
Just sorry i've been unable to help any.
Jack
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Re: Blain family Greenock
Thanks Jack! You have done a lot of searching there. I'm much appreciative.Jack wrote:Hi Jenny,
Your BLAINs are proving very elusive - can't even find them Renfrewshire, never mind Greenock.
(i've also tried Ayrshire, Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire)
They could be in Greenock, just for the simple reason that most indexes are not always correct.
But it would mean a trawl through the census films in the hope you do find them.
I will try other possibilities - indeed maybe they went somewhere else first. But then, I wonder where John went to - though if he was a sailor, he may have been at sea... or, of course, deadJack wrote: The only possible family member i can see in 1851 Greenock is a Thomas.
And if him, maybe he was the only one of the family to be in Greenock by 1851? Brother William arriving later?
That is very useful because it rules this one out; and it means that I can search for a Helen Blain in Greenock. The finding of Thomas Blane (this spelling occurs once more, on the birth of William's eldest son John) as an apprentice ship carpenter is interesting - William married (1860) into the family of a ship carpenter, though the father John Phillip (or Phillips in the census) died at sea around 1850. So sad to see - the household of John Phillips' widow and young children is in the 1851 census, and it shows Mary Phillips as a washerwomen, though living in a street surrounded by artisan families... Indeed each woman and each child was only one man away from poverty and relative destitution in these days.Jack wrote: Could the family have moved from Stranraer to Ireland some time after 1841? Or to another Scottish County?
By the way, the John BLAIN who married Euphemia STEWART in 1850 is a 25yr old joiner born in the town of Ayr.
I'll also check up on the info on Robert - I have been working backwards from William jnr, and only recently (via. 1841 census) found the other children of the family. Haven't found marriages etc. for Robert, Peter, etc., but I'll try to confirm deaths. Have that of William (in 1902). I had hoped for DCs for the parents William and Mary but they appear to have been dead before 1855.
The Ireland connection is one I've been trying to check out and will persist with this - there seems to be a shortage of County Down records (at least online) though and I haven't had any leads, though of course 'Blain' is a name found in the areas of Wigtownshire, Ayrshire, and Down!
Oh, you have helped! And if you find any 'Blains' elsewhere, please let me know.. One worry is that they have been turned into 'Blairs' by transcribers (people try to do this often enough for me!) and there are so many of these that they become untraceable - but that is how I found the 1861 census for William.Jack wrote: Just sorry i've been unable to help any.
Jack
Regards and thanks,
Jenny
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Re: Blain family Greenock
Hi Jenny,
Just to say i'd also tried the BLAIR name for the family in 1851,
and no suitable Helen/Ellen (John's wife) either - did they have children?
In looking for William aged abt 13 i eventually ended up searching for a W* B*, age 13, +/- 4yrs, but none fitted.
So the mystery continues...
I still think it might be best to try and find the DCs of William's siblings and work back from them.
Wishing you well in your search!
Jack
Just to say i'd also tried the BLAIR name for the family in 1851,
and no suitable Helen/Ellen (John's wife) either - did they have children?
In looking for William aged abt 13 i eventually ended up searching for a W* B*, age 13, +/- 4yrs, but none fitted.
So the mystery continues...
I still think it might be best to try and find the DCs of William's siblings and work back from them.
Wishing you well in your search!
Jack
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Re: Blain family Greenock
It's just a huge puzzle! I have William junior from 1861 on, and of course the 1841 Stranraer household - nobody else. Haven't seen possible DCs (other than again William junior, which I found easily). And if they went to Ireland, well there are essentially no records . But there were no stories of Irish connections on that side, the stories were only of links to Stranraer before Greenock.Jack wrote:Hi Jenny,
Just to say i'd also tried the BLAIR name for the family in 1851,
and no suitable Helen/Ellen (John's wife) either - did they have children?
In looking for William aged abt 13 i eventually ended up searching for a W* B*, age 13, +/- 4yrs, but none fitted.
No record of children with parents John & Helen either. And no apparent marriages for the others via the various IGI search facilities.
I'll keep persevering... Think I need to be somewhere I can see the OPR and census films - Glasgow in the summer I guess!
Jenny
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Hi Jenny
Best wishes
Lesley
If you can't wait until then, remember it should be possible to order any films to view through your local LDS Family History Centre. (Crikes, you lot must be thinking by now that I get commission on saying this!! I'm not a member of the church, just someone who is hugely appreciative of all the resources and services they provide for researchers, mostly for no cost whatsoever) As far as I remember it only costs around £2 per film.Think I need to be somewhere I can see the OPR and census films
Best wishes
Lesley
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
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Thanks, Lesley. But I did phone them up - oh, a bit over a year ago. And their opening hours are _very_ restricted here. And they are quite a long way from here, on the other side of the city. So they would only be an option if they seemed to have materials I could get in no other ways and only then if I could get there in the specified times - and I'm a member of two family history societies, have connections with a third, and would personally rather get material that had more direct connections to the places I'm dealing with.LesleyB wrote:Hi Jenny
If you can't wait until then, remember it should be possible to order any films to view through your local LDS Family History Centre... As far as I remember it only costs around £2 per film.
Best wishes
Lesley
But I don't doubt that they do a good job - indeed when I first started doing this, many years ago when I was in Canada, I had great recourse to the LDS centre in the city I was then in. But now it serves my purpose less well, it seems.
Regards,
Jenny
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Re: Blain family Greenock .....
On the subject of Blain/Blaine family in Greenock I found this envelope in amongst my late mum's collection of first day covers.
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