1851 Govan census - Mushat or Mushet lookup? .....

[jennyblain]

The Scotlands people index has James Mushat (44) and Thomas Mushat (13) - the GROS record is 646/00 015/00 069 . But 'no image', so I cannot get access to who else is in the household, or further information.

Is there any kind soul who has access to the 1851 Govan census information and could do a look-up?

Jenny

[SuMacd]

Hi
Appears also to be Marion Mushat aged 35
Susan

[jennyblain]

Ah - thanks, Susan. Different household then. OK, I'll go back to looking

Mine are more likely to be in Greenock in any case!

Jenny

[jennyblain]

I've just been thinking about this again - have found the marriage of a James Mushat and Marion Mitchelson in 1849, so there may be some possibility that it's the same James, with a second marriage, as Thomas is the right age and I can find no others!

Susan, would you have any more info on the household? Birthplaces? Also, what age is given for James - could it read 47 rather than 44?

Jenny

[Jack]

Hi Jenny,
To add to what Susan has found.
The address was written as possibly 'ditto' Castlewalk St, but i think this might just be a slip of the pen.
Age is as 44, but maybe James has shaved a few years off? (younger wife!)
He has given a middle initial - "W", and son Thomas' birthplace looked like Greenock.
--
1851 cens 646 (626) Ed 9 p 69 (Govan - Partick)
Castlebank? Street, Partick.
James W. MUSHAT, head, marr, 44, engineer, machin..., b Kilmarnock, AYR
Marion MUSHAT, wife, marr, 35, ---------------------------b Leith, MLN
Thomas MUSHAT, son, 13, ----------------------------b Greenock? RFW
--
Jack

[jennyblain]

YES! That has to be him! The details of birthplace and occupation are right. James Mushat was born in Kilmarnock, and elsewhere is described as Engine Fitter: and son Thomas (youngest in the family) was born in Greenock. There were two older children that I've come across, Christina (my g-g-grandmother) who was born around 1822 and married George Knaggs in Greenock, and John, born around 1827, so that they were both elsewhere by 1851.

Thomas remained in Partick, and indeed was living at 65 Castlebank Street at the time of his father's death - he reported the death. The father's death is recorded in Hutchesontown in 1870.

The 'W' appears to be for Wallace, from the IGI record of the marriage to Marion Mitchelson. This is interesting - it didn't appear in the other info. I had for him, and so gives another line to pursue. This branch seem to have been quite into giving family middle names, and I have not yet tracked all of them down. Several of Christina's children and their children in turn had middle names, and while 'Christina Mushet Knaggs' makes sense, I don't know where the Sheddon in John Sheddon Knaggs, or even the Grant in my grandmother Margaret Grant Knaggs, comes from..

His first wife, mother of Christina, John and Thomas, was Helen Garrie or Gorie or Gorrie - she and James were charged in 1822 with stealing wearing apparel from one Margaret Ritchie in Grahamstown, he pled not guilty and was let off, she pled guilty but 'became unwell' in the court and 'was removed from the bar'.. they must have been awfully young and I've wondered whether her becoming 'unwell' related to pregnancy.

Many thanks, Jack!

Alas, though, my chances of finding anything further about Helen Garrie are now very slim. I don't know where she was born or anything other than the name with its various spellings, and an approximate date of birth (1800) from the 1841 census info...

Jenny

[Jack]

Hi Jenny,
George & Christina are still in Greenock 1851, names from an index so no more details.
Seems they were the only KNAGGS in the area.
--
1851 cens. Greenock
George KNAGGS, 30
Christina, 27
Mary A., 6
Helen, 4
George, 2
Marion, under? 1
--
Jack
ps, could this be father George?
1851 cens. Gorbals - Tradeston
George KNAGGS, 65
Christina, 40
Daniel, 15
--
pps, possibly James & Christina's brother John?
1851 cens. Greenock
John MUSHET, 23
(might be with a Peter Ferguson 26 & Elizabeth 22)
--

[nelmit]

Hi all,

I was going to post this the other day then realised it was the 1851 that was asked for.

Any way I've kind of lost the plot so just in case it's of any use:

Piece: SCT1841/564 Place: Greenock-Renfrewshire Enumeration District: 121
Civil Parish: Greenock East Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 120 Page: 21
Address: St James St

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MUSHAT James M 35 Engineer Journeyman Outside Census County (1841)
MUSHAT Helen F 40 Outside Census County (1841)
MUSHAT John M 14 Founder Apprentice Renfrewshire
MUSHAT Thomas M 5 Renfrewshire
MUSHAT James M 40 Iron Moulder Journeyman Outside Census County (1841)
MUSHAT Ann F 30 Outside Census County (1841)
MUSHAT Archd. M 10 Outside Census County (1841)

Annette M

[jennyblain]

Hi Jenny,
George & Christina are still in Greenock 1851, names from an index so no more details.
Seems they were the only KNAGGS in the area.

Yes - the name is from Lythe, just north of Whitby, and George Knaggs the eldest came to the Clyde as a youth, was a deck-hand on the Comet, later a pilot, and indeed he was (later) the pilot for the trip of Queen Victoria around the Clyde estuary.

1851 cens. Greenock
George KNAGGS, 30
Christina, 27 ...

--
ps, could this be father George?
1851 cens. Gorbals - Tradeston
George KNAGGS, 65 ...
--
pps, possibly James & Christina's brother John?
1851 cens. Greenock
John MUSHET, 23
(might be with a Peter Ferguson 26 & Elizabeth 22)
--

Thanks Jack! (again!)
I have the others from another discussion a bit ago - my family seems to be really a victim of the blue forms or whatever has caused the 'no image' phenomenon on SP - but John Mushet, 23, in Greenock, was new to me. I'd think it's very likely to be him, in the same family.

Father George (the pilot, 65 in 1851 census) married three times, btw! The Christina (aged 40) in the Gorbals family is his third wife, and one of my g-grandfather's siblings was named for her. Daniel was the child of the second wife, who was (if my member serves me) a Janet McNab.

Ye gods, doesn't it get complicated!

Jenny

[jennyblain]

Piece: SCT1841/564 Place: Greenock-Renfrewshire Enumeration District: 121
Civil Parish: Greenock East Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 120 Page: 21
Address: St James St

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MUSHAT James M 35 Engineer Journeyman Outside Census County (1841)
MUSHAT Helen F 40 Outside Census County (1841)
(and others)

Annette M

Thanks Annette! I think in this business everything is worth posting. I did have the info about this family in 1841, such as it is - but I might easily not have had it. You rightly flag up Helen in there. My hope was, of course, that she was still alive in 1851, so I could find where she was born - but alas, not so From info online she might be from Arbroath - or from Perthshire - or there might be no extant info on her

The Clyde estuary was a real melting pot in the 19th c. Living there must have been interesting - or desperate.

Thanks and please do post anything else that seems at all relevant.

Jenny