Ellen Farrell.....

[Bob Haining]

I’m hoping that someone on this forum can see something that I’m missing. Just who is Ellen (Filson) Farrell (I think see is my great-great-grandmother, but…..)?

When I entered Helen Filson’s name to get a death certificate on ScotlandsPeople, I received, (GROS 586/00 0066) Ellen Ferrel – widow of James Ferrel - death date November 19, 1891, at 80 Benquhat - age 51. Father – John Filson, Mother -???? Filson – M/S Glen. Informant – John Filson, son.

(On great-grandfather John Filson’s D/C, his father is listed as John Filson and mother as Helen Filson – M/S Glen – informant, John Filson – son).

Inscription on the John Filson family headstone, there is an Ellen Filson (Mother) died at Benwhat, November 20, 1891, age 63.

On the 1891 census, there is a Henle Filson age 63 - living at 94 Benquhat with a grandson (James Collins) – born Ireland.

The 1881 census Helen Fowlson age 56 – widow, is living with son John Fowlson (this is the correct family, spelling is wrong) at 64 Lethan Hill – born Ireland.

Have not found a census for 1871, but the folklore is that the family left Ireland about 1865. I’ve searched the 1871 for Filson, Philson, Fowlson and F*rrel* and have drawn a blank on this family.

I have a marriage transcription for Edward Farrell and Ellen Filson, February 27, 1850 in Newtownards, County Down. Age 25. Her father is listed as John Filson, but no mother named. (Both signed their name with an X).

Except for her age listed on her D/C, all other listed ages are close enough to accept.

All the census has great-grandfather John Filson born in Ireland, but have not found a birth certificate for him.

And just to add to the confusion, there is a Helen (Filson) McKinstray death in 1922 at 111 Benquhat. Father - Edward Filson and Mother - Helen Filson - M/S Glen. I have a couple of B/C for their children, it shows that they were married in Newtownards, but unable to find the M/C. (I believe she is a sister to John Filson).

Does anyone have any ideas to help me put a positive link between Ellen [Helen] Filson Farrell and John Filson?

[JustJean]

Hi Bob

Goodness this bunch is enough to make you pull your hair out!!! I’ve been around up and down and I’m still a little unsure of all the pieces but just to keep you entertained I’ve a few observations that you didn’t mention……

First one involves the Helen Filson McKinstry death in 1922. Her son Joseph states her father had been Edward Filson and he was a fisherman. Since Joseph shows up on the census as being born in Dalmellington about 1881 I went looking for them. Here they are (note address)….

Dwelling: 77 Lethan Hill
Census Place: Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203594 GRO Ref Volume 586 EnumDist 6 Page 18
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James MC INSTRIE M 34 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: General Labourer
Helen MC INSTRIE M 38 F Ireland
Rel: Wife
Helen MC INSTRIE 4 F Ireland
Rel: Daur
Joseph MC INSTRIE 3 m M Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son


Now note the address of your John Filson and mother Ellen Ferrel Filson Glen and so forth………..

Dwelling: 64 Lethan Hill
Census Place: Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203594 GRO Ref Volume 586 EnumDist 6 Page 15
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John FOWLSON M 23 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Ironstone Miner
Janet FOWLSON M 26 F Straiton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Wife
John FOWLSON 2 M Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Helen FOWLSON 1 m F Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Helen FOWLSON W 56 F Ireland
Rel: Mother
Ann GIBSON M 38 F Ireland
Rel: Visitor
Occ: Solicitors Wife



How nice that they were neighbors in 1881!! And then it looked like the McKinstry family went back to Ireland and had a few more kids before returning for the 1891 census and moving up the hill to Benquhat. And in 1891 not only do you find Helen now living with the James Collins grandson and also the William Gibson b-in-law to James Collins b US Brit Subject. (I haven’t sussed the b-i-l bit yet but was curious to note that in 1881 there was an Ann visiting with John Filson family……must be a connection there somewhere!!) you find John Philson (sic) family in Benquhat too!

One thing you typed that threw me off a bit was that Helen Filson’s death on 19 Nov 1891 stated she was the widow of James Ferrel. Not true!! The DC states she was the widow of Edward Ferrel. Not that that helps a whole lot.

Now for the attempt at lining up the pieces…..

John Filson says at his Marriage in 1877 that his father was John Filson (dec) and his mother was Helen Filson mn Glen. No mention of a Ferrell!!!
John Filson says at his mother’s death in 1891 that her husband had been Edward Ferrell and her parents had been John Filson and _____ Filson mn Glen.
At John Filson’s death his son stated his grandparents had been John Filson fisherman and Helen Filson mn Glen No mention of a Ferrell!!

Yet you state you have a MC from Newtonards for Edward Ferrell and Ellen Filson 1850 and she was aged 25 which lines up perfectly with the Helen mother we’re trying to pin down!!. John Filson must have been born about 1858 and he always uses the Filson surname on the records where we’ve found him! The Helen McKinstry that you think is his sister got married in Ireland so no help there.

It would be really wonderful to try and track down the parents of James Collins or William Gibson just to see what info might be gleaned there. Unfortunately I didn’t see any marriage records leaping out at me nor any 1901 census ones either. They seem to have left Benquhat. I really wonder if the mn Glen bit was really Helen’s mum’s mn and not her own. I wonder if she were really Helen Filson who married Edward Ferrell and had several children. Then he died and she reverted to using her maiden name. No where do you have what she stated her mn as except on her MC in Newtonards and at age 25 it is really doubtful that was a scond marriage (unless she was fibbing tremendously!) It doesn’t really look like Ann Gibson could be her daughter as she would have been born about 1843….unless she was illegitimate.

Well there you have it….hardly a neat package!!

Is there anything here now that looks different in a new light?? [-o<

Best wishes
Jean

Oh...and in the 1871 census....I've not found them either

[JustJean]

Hi again Bob

Hope this didn't keep you up all night !

We might be making a wee bit of headway now......you simply must go purchase this MC...

1893 COLLINS JAMES ARTHUR JESSIE AIRDRIE OR NEW MONKLAND

and look at who James's mum was ......


(for those who are curious.....Annie Gibson previously Collins ms Philson (dec'd)

Now because James is labeled as Helen's grandson......I can only conclude that Annie Gibson Collins Philson was the daughter of Helen. And since that MC from Down in 1850 indicates Helen had never been married......just maybe Annie was illegitimate after all! It also now looks very much like William Gibson was no a brother in law to James...but in truth a half brother or perhaps even more likely a step brother.

One tiny piece down....but still so many to go.........

Best wishes
Jean

Oh and James and Jessie did return to Benquhat after their honeymoon as daughter Catherine was born there. Still don't have them yet on 1901.....but Jessie did live to a nice old age dying in Airdrie.....with a son James as informant..........

[Bob Haining]

Hi Jean,

Thanks for all your information, it’s taken me a while to check it against what I have.

My mistake on the James Farrell, should have been Edward Farrell.

I received a D/C from a second cousin in the UK that is also working on our Filson family.
The D/C is for a William Gibson – died March 10, 1947 – single – age 71.
Father – William Gibson, Solicitor (dec’d). The 1881 census, Ann Gibson was listed as "Solicitors wife".
Mother – Anne Gibson, M/S FILSON (dec’d).
Informant – John Hainey, Occupier (this spelling is close to my surname, but no relation)

Thanks to your information, I now have James Collins marriage, I’ll now have to double check to see if I can find his mother’s death certificate. I’ll now go back into the Irish site to see if I might have missed a birth or marriage.

Returning to the 1891 census, although William Gibson is listed as brother-in-law to James Collins, in fact they are step-brothers. With William Gibson being listed in the census as American (British Subject) I’ll see if I can find his birth in the U.S.

I’ve had no luck in finding the deaths of either William Gibson Sr. or Ann(ie) Gibson, possibly they returned to Ireland.

This 69 year old brain gets narrowed in on one thing and needs someone like you to give me a “kick-start” again.

Thanks again for your help.

[JustJean]

Hi Bob

Just some afterthoughts that may or may not help you. Since James Collins was aged 22 in 1891 and William Gibson was 17 that really narrows up the time frame that Ann's first husband died and she remarried.....about 1869 til 1874...just 5 years! Because William was born in the States abt 1874 but his mother is in Scotland in 1881 and the US does their census on the even year I thought we might catch them still there in 1880....but I've found nothing yet!

Because James and William are in Scotland in 1891 and their grandmother is "housekeeper" I suspect that Ann and perhaps even her husband were both dead by then...that explains the two boys living together and being mothered by their grannie. We know that Ann was dead by Dec 1892 when James marries anyhow. So that narrows up the death window for her from 1881 to 1891 census dates. Now to just find where.......

Good work on getting William's DC!!! I'm so happy you're getting some good help from a cousin. That always makes the search that much more enjoyable!

Best wishes
Jean

[Bob Haining]

Hi Jean,

I did find the 1901 census for the Collins family (GROS 651/00 008/00). There are 5 children listed, but no Catherine, I’m just wondering where you found her?

Also found the D/C for both James and Jessie Collins, without your help I’d still be going around in a circle.

[JustJean]

Hi Bob

Oh dear...it's my turn to blush She's not a Catherine....she's an Elizabeth!!! Sorry!!!!! I found her by running a search for all COLLINS born Dalmellington from the 1891 census to the end of online BC records. It was ploy to see if James married elsewhere and then returned to Benquhat....and it paid off nicely. From her BC I had their marriage info in Airdrie and away I went!

Did not mean to send you on a wild goosechase!!!! I have no idea where I got Catherine from. ...........hmmm.......must be more careful and check my notes before typing!

Best wishes
Jean