gordon/seaton .....

[margaretmccue]

hello all. I have a set of gr gr grandparents mary seaton and james gordon, on my gr granmothers marriage it states her parent s marriage wasnt registered. as you all know the names are not uncommon, my gr gran was jane gordon no trace of her birth. married to william anderson at inveresk musslebugh jul 1855 aged 21. I have found quite a few children for this couple but cant find any trace of james or mary .James was deceased when jane got married he was a journeyman shoemaker. while im on does anyone know what a hairworker would do in those days is it a hairdresser. all the best margaret

[JustJean]

Hi Margaret

Quick question......where does Jane state she was born on the censuses after her 1855 marriage???......

Best wishes
Jean

[LesleyB]

Hi Margaret
I wonder if this is relevant to the occupation you mention:
Hairweaver / Hairman: Weaver of horsehair cloth
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/h.html

It may have other meanings, whcih I'm sure someone else will find!
Best wishes
Lesley

[Jack]

Hi folks,
These from the excellent census indexes issued by http://www.lothiansfhs.org.uk/
There is a James GORDON, 24, coal miner, in Inveresk 1841. Any use?
--
1841 census 689 Ed 8 p 7 (Inveresk)
Newbigging.
Elisabeth SEATON, 40, haircloth weaver, b MLN
Mary SEATON, 26, haircloth weaver, b MLN
Elisabeth ALLAN, 70, pauper, b SCT
Jean GORDON, 6, ----------b MLN
--
1851 census 689 Ed 3 p 26 (Inveresk)
Newbigging.
Daniel BATHGATE, head, marr, 37, tanner, b Dirleton, ELN
Elizabeth BATHGATE, wife, marr, 54, formerly weaver, b Musselburgh, MLN [Elisabeth Seaton from 1841?]
Jane GORDON, niece, 15, hair cloth weaver, b Musselburgh, MLN
Elizabeth HUNTER, niece, 7, at home, b Musselburgh, MLN
--
Jack

[JustJean]

Nice one Jack!

The death of Elizabeth is found in 1879.....with deceased parents names....and a nephew informant.

Best wishes
Jean

[Jack]

Hi again folks,
This might be the marriage of Mary SEATON, the mother of Jane GORDON?
--
GEORGE HUNTER
MARY SETON
Marriage: 28 AUG 1842 Inveresk With Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
--
A look at the original census page below would be needed to see if wee Elizabeth HUNTER 7yrs
has been accidentally transcribed as a daur, and should be gr-daur.
I know not impossible, but if Elizabeth was Bella's daur, it would've made her about 52yrs when she was born.
And if Elizabeth is her gr-daur, then it looks like that she's been recorded twice in the census?
At home, with her parents & gr-parents, and also with her aunt Elizabeth BATHGATE?
--
1851 census 689 Ed M3 p 14 (Inveresk)
Thomas HUNTER, head, marr, 60, labourer, b Musselburgh, MLN
Bella HUNTER, wife, marr, 59, -----------------b Colinton, MLN
George HUNTER, son, marr, 31, labourer, b Musselburgh, MLN
Isabell HUNTER, daur, u/m, 19, formerly servant, b Musselburgh, MLN
Hugh HUNTER, son, 13, hair factory ap., b Musselburgh, MLN
Mary HUNTER, daur-in-law, marr, 39, hair cloth weaver, b Musselburgh, MLN [Mary SEATON from 1841?]
Isabell HUNTER, gr-daur, 8, scholar, b Musselburgh, MLN
Elizabeth HUNTER, daur, 7, scholar, b Musselburgh, MLN
Margaret HUNTER, gr-daur, 5, scholar, b Musselburgh, MLN
Thomas HUNTER, gr-son, 2, -----------b Musselburgh, MLN
William HUNTER, gr-son, 8days, -----b Musselburgh, MLN
--
Jack

[JustJean]

Hi Margaret

Thanks for your message. I'll try to give you my thoughts here in this reply. First of all huge thanks to Jack and his magical census indexes Little doubt that not only has he located your Jane in 1841 but also in 1851 along with many extended relations. His suspicions that wee Elizabeth Hunter has been enumerated twice are right on the mark. The original (digitized) census image while being somewhat difficult to decipher is very clear in showing a 'do' beside Elizabeth's name and under the description of Gr Daur written on the line above (which is also the first line of the page) beside Isabell's name. There may have been confusion that there is only one "do" and was that intended to "do" just the Daur part and not the Gr part? Funny enough though on the next line below that and next to Margaret's name is the same one set of "do"and she has made it into the index as a Gr Daur.

As you stated you had the names of children born to Jane Gordon and William Anderson. Since the IGI is not complete all their children are not included there. Here is that list from the IGI:

1. CHARLES LECKIE ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 17 JUN 1873 Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland

2. JAMES ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 02 FEB 1871 Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland

3. WILLIAM ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 03 OCT 1862 Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland

4. ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 21 DEC 1869 Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland

5. GEORGINA ROSS ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 26 DEC 1867 Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland

6. JOHAN ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 20 MAY 1865 Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland

7. HANNAH ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 25 JUN 1857 Inveresk With Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

8. JAMES ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 09 JUL 1859 Inveresk With Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

Middles names can be great indicators of an earlier family member's surname but this is not always guaranteed. They might be named after a neighbor...a minister....or even a ship or a place. So keep an open mind if it doesn't immediately make sense. It might be a great clue to a long lost.....or it might remain a hidden secret

From Jack's input it certainly looks like your Jane was born out of wedlock to Mary Seaton and James Gordon. We've got Mary tracked down for you but so far no sure sign of James. Mary is unmarried on the 1841 census and living with what appears to be her older sister Elisabeth. Jane is shown as Jean and is stated as age 6. Since no relationships are declared on the 1841 there is no proof of who Elisabeth Allan might be! Now ten years later you have the older sister Elisabeth now married to Daniel Bathgate. Your Jane is still living in her household and also present is another neice ....who just so happens to be a half sister to Jane. In another household you'll see that Jane's mother Mary is found with her husband George Hunter who she married in 1842.....and not only do they have 5 children but are in the same house as George Hunter's parents and siblings.....one very big and happy household!! Of course George Hunter and his family would be no blood relation to your Jane but certainly he was a father figure to her and fondly thought of enough for Jane to name her son after....George Anderson who you tell me was born in 1876 and used the middle name of Hunter upon his marriage in 1904!

Hope this helps....

Best wishes
Jean

[Jack]

Hi Jean and Margaret,
Not my indexes! But i do use them quite a lot because censuses can often help solve problems.
All credit is due to the good work done by the transcribers who make our ancestor searching that bit easier at times.

Jean, thanks for checking wee Elizabeth in the 1851 census - i'd hoped she would be a gr-daur.
Margaret, you'll have a note of this marriage by now? Looks very like it could be the elder sister of your Mary SEATON.
Hopefully the DCs of Elizabeth (Seaton) BATHGATE & Mary (Seaton) HUNTER,
will have the same parent info to confirm they are sisters.
--
DANIEL BATHGATE
ELYSABETH SETON
Marriage: 07 AUG 1841 Inveresk With Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
--
Jack

[JustJean]

Hi Margaret

Wow! What a day! This is the 3rd time I've attempted to reply to you.....had to shut down much earlier due to violent thundershowers....then got home from dinner out to find the power was off.....soooooo...waited for over an hour for it to be restored sat down and was half through typing a reply and the power went out again! I was really miffed at that point.....but finally here I am some 5+ hours later

I'm not sure why you're having difficulties with searching on SP. Perhaps if I explain some rationale and tactics it will help you understand the process better. In order to locate a death for Elizabeth Seaton Bathgate I searched using the following parameters....

You searched for: Surname: "BATHGATE"; Use Soundex: Off; Forename: "ELI**"; Other Surname: "SE*TON"; Sex: "Female"; Year From: 1855; Year To: 1955;

Now you may have questions on why the use of the asterisk??? In this case I was not certain how Elizabeth might have been spelled....it might have been Elisabeth...it might have been Eliza....it might even have been Lizzie....or Liz...but I took a huge gamble and assumed it would be 1 of the first 3 choices. Therefore any of those choices are identical through the first 3 letters. So enter the first three letters and then use an asterisk (*) to represent "any letters" or "no letters".

Same approach with her maiden name of SEATON which can also be spelled SETON or I spose SEETON. In order to cover all 3 of these choice I opted for the SE*TON which would return all three types of results.

BATHGATE I trusted to be as it appears and sounds. Not too many ways to mess that one up. Not knowing when she died I left the time frame wide open as well as the place of death.

You will quickly see that searching with these parameters in place there will only be 1 result. From the view you'll see the result is for a 74 year old in 1879 in Inveresk/Musselburgh. THe odds that she is the right one to spend 5 credits on is astronomical!!

Now you also want to search for the death of Mary. So using the same techniques let's see what comes up.

You searched for: Surname: "HUNTER"; Use Soundex: Off; Forename: "MARY*"; Other Surname: "SE*TON"; Sex: "Female"; Year From: 1855; Year To: 1955;

I gambled there were no other spellings for HUNTER or MARY and used the same wildcard approach to cover the Seaton variables. I left the time frame wide open. If you enter these same parameters you'll find that once again there is only 1 possible choice. A 67 year old in 1889 in Inveresk/Musselburgh. And once again the odds that she is the right one are extremely favorable.

Now I'll leave you to finding them with your own searches.....and you can come back and tell us if you think they are sisters.

Best wishes
Jean

[margaretmccue]

Hello Jean at last [got to it] sorry about the delay, have both death certs different parents Elizabeths are William Seaton {carter] mother Jane Seaton M S Peat, Mary Seatons father William Seaton mother Joan Forrest, I guess that would account for the age gap, as William must have re married, still trying to trace them as it states on one census she was born in England and on the other she was from MLN, is that midlothian?? have had quite a quest, with this family of mine, but enjoying all of it. once more sorry it took so long for me to get back, and thanks for your patiance, {bit slow at times ]only
just realizes both their fathers were William, cheers , Margaret
P.S doing all my family,