SKS - Probably Jack .....

[Andy]

I've had a fantastic Lunch Hour! I was going through submitted Rootsweb family histories when a particular John Riddle, Isabella Robertson marriage in Kilbarchan cropped up.

The thing is that a couple of the children were born in Port Glasgow and the father was listed as a Game Keeper.

The marriage cert in 1855 gives John's age as 45 (he'd knocked off 10 years) and Isabella 24 (good work!). It gives John's parent's as John and Helen states it was his second marriage and that 6 out of eight children were still living and his place of birth as Cavers, Roxburghshire. He's my 3 x Great Grandfather. His death in 1860 at Newark Place in Port Glasgow was reported by his son, James (James was 5 years older than his Step Mother's reported age but she may have actually been born abt 1828 in Linwood).

I had the death details before but have spent years trying to track down the Death of his FIRST wife, Elizabeth Middlemas/mist since the death cert stated he was married but didn't give the wife's name.

The first daughter of the second marriage, Mary Strachan Riddle was born a few months later in Eastwood, followed by Helen in 1858 and Isabella in 1860 at Newark Place Port Glasgow.

If at all possible could Jack have a quick look in 1851 census around Thornliebank, Eastwood for a John Riddle, Game Keeper and family.

Children included:

James b. 1826 married in 1847
Helen b. 1828
John b. 1830 married in 1854
Agnes b. 1833
William Fordyce b. 1836
Elizabeth b. 1838
Andrew b. 1839

I have the details from the 1841 census for Houston & Killellan but now have to narrow down Elizabeth's death date.

Thanks (in anticipation)

[Jack]

Hi Andy,

Not long back from The Mitchell. But if this is your John then he's on the film that's still to be replaced - GWSFHS have a copy though, and i'll get full details next time i'm at the premises.
This is the best match - in the Abbey Parish, Paisley though. The 2nd one might be son James?
--
1851 cens 573-4 (475) Ed 30 p 31 (Abbey)
John RIDDLE 48
Elizabeth 54
Helen 22
John 20
William 15
Elizabeth 12
Walter 10
[no Andrew listed]
--
1851 cens 569 (446-2) Ed 5 p 8 (Kilmacolm)
James RIDDELL 25
Margaret 26
John 3
--
I'll get them as soon as possible - Jack

[Andy]

Jack,

Do you live in the library? Well met .. mate!

I'm well chuffed with Andrew who died and the next one was Walter!

You've not got a clue how important this is for me!

FANTASTIC !

Don't know where to start but, thanks to you, Jack, there IS going to be a a very good "Lateral" study.

On a personal front, when "one" has over 15,000 folk in the tree is very difficult to to make connections.

Today (for the first time in YEARS) I've got the personal "Rush" of finding a personal family line. There is NOTHING (Legal) to compare to this feeling.

Jack, as ever, you've done the business. I'll now work out a way to show how lateral stuff can come up with the goods.

The Kilmacolm lot are related and well known to me but thanks for the intuition.

[nancy]

hi Andy,I see there are quite a lot of Riddle families on 1841 Paisley parish census,would they be of any help to you.Cheers Nancy

[Andy]

Hi Nancy,

Three lots of Riddells left Roxburghshire around the same time and headed West. Another branch, including another Walter, turned up in Glasgow 100 years earlier.

Family stories have us related to Walter Scott (his granny or great granny was a Riddell) but I've no proof of this. Nor do I have any firm connections to the Paisley lot who had Pubs and were "Spirit Dealers". Or the other lot who finally arrive in Greenock via Dumbarton, they were butchers and hair dressers. An Irish/Ayrshire Riddle family were also in the Paisley area, they were Tinsmiths.

A good few Roxburghshire Riddells settled around the Houston, Eastwood and Kilwinning areas. I've not exercised my "Birds of a Feather" on this lot yet but will do.

James in Kilmacolm was my g-g-g grandfather's brother, the wife was Margaret Burnett. His son, also James b. 1856, went on to marry his first cousin causing a bit of a gossip at the time (and for years after).

John senior, was easy to track up until 1841 because he was listed with addresses in various trade directories. John senior, after moving from Roxburgh, was a "Gentleman's Servant" in 1832, a Baillie in 1836 and, thereafter a Gamekeeper on various estates. James, the son, started out a Game Keeper and became a Land Factor. He too remarried fairly late in life.

Jack, the Watt has the Abbey Films but they've not been indexed. However since you've provided the reference I'll be able to find them quickly by myself .... but I appreciate the offer. If you need any look-ups in the meantime just post the details.

The Walter you found makes all the difference. Andrew and Agnes must have died which brings the total children to 8. On the second marriage cert from 1855 John is listed as having 8 children 6 living (until yesterday I only had 7).

[Jack]

Hi Andy,

There's a 16yr old Agnes RIDDLE you could maybe check out-

1851 cens 573 (465) Ed 3 p 21 (Low)

She's possibly with a Lochhead family.

Jack

[jillwelsh]

Hi Andy

I'm looking for any info you might have come across on any Riddells from Glasgow.

I have William Riddell who married Helen Strathearn in Glasgow in 1841, their son David Riddell who married Jane Anderson in Bridgeton in 1868 and his daughter Helen Strathearn Riddell (b.1870) - several of them are listed as Spirit Dealers. Family lore is that this lot were big temperance society people too!

Helen Strathearn Riddell married William Smith in Glasgow and their son Peter Smith was my husband's grandfather.

Any help much appreciated.

Jill