Hi all,
The 1861 census for Tollcross, Glasgow lists my g.g.grandfather, Patrick Leslie, aged 30, born Ireland, living with his family at 60 Smith’s Land, Hamilton Rd. I also found, living with his family at 73 Smith’s Land, an Edward Leslie aged 40 born Ireland. I presume Smith’s Land was a tenement.
Due the comparative lack of Irish Leslies I wondered if these two were connected.
An 1855 birth certificate came up with the information that Edward came from Co. Cavan. Edward’s 1886 DC stated that his parents were Edward Leslie and Mary Docherty. The informant was Edward’s son-in law.
Patrick Leslie’s 1896 DC shows his parents as Edward Leslie and Catherine Braidie.
The informant was the Governor of Barnhill Poorhouse. I have been unable to ascertain which Irish county Patrick came from.
I know how unreliable names can be from some Informants of Death and that assumption can be totally wrong, but I’d like to think that Patrick and Edward were, in some way, related perhaps brothers or half-brothers. I’ve drawn a blank on any further information.
Has anyone any thoughts?
Jim
Related or not related
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maddymoss
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DavidWW
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Re: Related or not related
It depends, - it could have been a single tenement, but it could also have been a complex of several different tenement buildings reached through the entry/close known as "Whatever Land" and possibly stretching back off the original street 100 or 150 yards.......maddymoss wrote:...... snipped ...... I presume Smith’s Land was a tenement..... snipped .............
Jim
David
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Davie
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Greetin’s Jim
Another post of interest tae masel.
“Coalminers, an’ the East End o’ ma toon”
Counties, Cavin and Monaghan, had a few Leslie faimilies who moved to tae the East End o’ Glasgow.
All coal miners, as far as I can gather.
Can I ask where you got the info. from the 1861 census.
The Leslie name is not too common in the Glasgow area, in the nineteenth century.
Mer’ frae the east coast o’ Scotland, as faur as ah um aware, but will staun correctit’, if am wrang.
As David, pointed oot about the tenements, it could be anything between a single row of “Miner’s cottages” ( more than likely in yer ain Faimily’s case) built by the mine owners for ther’ workers, or a two storey block of flats.
Hence my queerie oan wher’ ye gote the census return.
On yer original post, not only could the relationships be confused, but the ages as well.
I had a wee skite through some o’ the stuff ah huv available, and I would guess that your Edward’s son in law, wis James Ferrie.
I have no record of a Leslie family on any census returns frae the East End on my own files.
So, would be delighted, if you could pass it along.
Awrabest
Davie
Another post of interest tae masel.
“Coalminers, an’ the East End o’ ma toon”
Counties, Cavin and Monaghan, had a few Leslie faimilies who moved to tae the East End o’ Glasgow.
All coal miners, as far as I can gather.
Can I ask where you got the info. from the 1861 census.
The Leslie name is not too common in the Glasgow area, in the nineteenth century.
Mer’ frae the east coast o’ Scotland, as faur as ah um aware, but will staun correctit’, if am wrang.
As David, pointed oot about the tenements, it could be anything between a single row of “Miner’s cottages” ( more than likely in yer ain Faimily’s case) built by the mine owners for ther’ workers, or a two storey block of flats.
Hence my queerie oan wher’ ye gote the census return.
On yer original post, not only could the relationships be confused, but the ages as well.
I had a wee skite through some o’ the stuff ah huv available, and I would guess that your Edward’s son in law, wis James Ferrie.
I have no record of a Leslie family on any census returns frae the East End on my own files.
So, would be delighted, if you could pass it along.
Awrabest
Davie
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maddymoss
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Davie,
The information came from the Index to the 1861 Census of Lanarkshire by Des Garrity and from Scotlandspeople.
In the Lanarkshire Census Patrick Leslie and family are on pages 12 and 13:
Patrick Leslie 30 Ireland
Margaret Leslie 40 “
Catherine 7 Tollcross
John 4 “
Charles 3 “
Edward and family are on page 15.
Edward Leslie 40 Ireland
Bridget Leslie 38 “
Margaret 16 “
Mary 10 “
Patrick 7 “
The 1861 Census has Patrick and Edward’s addresses as 60 and 73 Smith’s Land, Hamilton Rd., Tollcross respectively.
Though both were Irish Leslies living within a few doors of each other and each had an Edward Leslie as father, I think I’ll have to do a wee bit more digging before I can be sure of any connection between them.
What keeps me going on this one is that a previous search of mine for any family related to a Francis McNamee of Co. Longford threw up the name of Bernard McNamee from the same county. Hoping for some connection I got Bernard’s DC but although both had a James McNamee as father their mother’s names were different. I then remembered a piece of advice I’d seen on the forum, I think from David Webster, about looking at informant and witnesses names. Sure enough, the Informant of Francis’s death was a Bernard McNamee, Half Brother.
The ages of Patrick and Edward show the same inconsistencies as usual, with Edward ageing 10 years in 20 years and Patrick doing the opposite and ageing 30 years in 20.
James Ferrie was indeed Edward’s son-in-law as well as his Informant of Death.
Cheers,
Jim.
Researching: McEwan, Leslie, McNamee, Donnelly, Carr, Queen, Stanfield, Galligan, Diamond among others.
The information came from the Index to the 1861 Census of Lanarkshire by Des Garrity and from Scotlandspeople.
In the Lanarkshire Census Patrick Leslie and family are on pages 12 and 13:
Patrick Leslie 30 Ireland
Margaret Leslie 40 “
Catherine 7 Tollcross
John 4 “
Charles 3 “
Edward and family are on page 15.
Edward Leslie 40 Ireland
Bridget Leslie 38 “
Margaret 16 “
Mary 10 “
Patrick 7 “
The 1861 Census has Patrick and Edward’s addresses as 60 and 73 Smith’s Land, Hamilton Rd., Tollcross respectively.
Though both were Irish Leslies living within a few doors of each other and each had an Edward Leslie as father, I think I’ll have to do a wee bit more digging before I can be sure of any connection between them.
What keeps me going on this one is that a previous search of mine for any family related to a Francis McNamee of Co. Longford threw up the name of Bernard McNamee from the same county. Hoping for some connection I got Bernard’s DC but although both had a James McNamee as father their mother’s names were different. I then remembered a piece of advice I’d seen on the forum, I think from David Webster, about looking at informant and witnesses names. Sure enough, the Informant of Francis’s death was a Bernard McNamee, Half Brother.
The ages of Patrick and Edward show the same inconsistencies as usual, with Edward ageing 10 years in 20 years and Patrick doing the opposite and ageing 30 years in 20.
James Ferrie was indeed Edward’s son-in-law as well as his Informant of Death.
Cheers,
Jim.
Researching: McEwan, Leslie, McNamee, Donnelly, Carr, Queen, Stanfield, Galligan, Diamond among others.
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Andy
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Does John or Charles' birth certs have the parents place of marriage? (longshot for 1856 and 1858).
Searching for Keogh, Kelly, Fitzgerald, Riddell, Stewart, Wilson, McQuilkin, Lynch, Boyle, Cairney, Ross, King, McIlravey, McCurdy, Drennan and Woods (to name but a few).
Also looking for any information on Rathlin Island, County Antrim, Ireland.
Also looking for any information on Rathlin Island, County Antrim, Ireland.
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maddymoss
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Andy,
Unfortunately no. I was fortunate to get the county of birth of Edward from the 1855 birth certificate of his first child born in Scotland. The child died after 3 months.
Re your interest in Rathlin. I was searching the IGI for a marriage in Ireland around the mid 1820's between Mary McKinlay and John McCormick . The only hit was from Rathlin but unfortunately between Mary Mckinlay and Donald McCormick.
Jim
Unfortunately no. I was fortunate to get the county of birth of Edward from the 1855 birth certificate of his first child born in Scotland. The child died after 3 months.
Re your interest in Rathlin. I was searching the IGI for a marriage in Ireland around the mid 1820's between Mary McKinlay and John McCormick . The only hit was from Rathlin but unfortunately between Mary Mckinlay and Donald McCormick.
Jim