The 1851 Census and a Jolly Family .....

[Jamboesque]

Hi Folks,
I'm not sure this post should be here on in the SP Forum but here goes.

I'm after the Jolly Family living in Millplough Farm, Arbuthnott, Kincardineshire for the 1851 Census.

James Jolly should be 36 b1815
Mary Jolly should be 28 b1823
children
James should be 5 b1846
John should be 2 b1849
Jane/Jean should be 0-1 b1850

I've tried the SP site off and on for the past 6 months trying to find them, they were still running the 170+ acre farm in the 1861 Census and with small children they wouldn't have gone too far.

Having joined the Ancestry site a month or so ago, more to aid finding the folk that escaped over the border, I thought I'd give them a go, and bingo, there they were. No problem, all accounted for with associated Ag Labs.

How come I can't find them on SP, I like to download the image and print it off for the file. I have had problems with the name Jolly esp in Census returns but this is usually cured by sticking a wildcard in place of the O.

Any Ideas.

[JustJean]

Ok...for the sake of comparisons for those following along...sure enough Ancestry easily has them as such...

1851 Scotland Census
about James Jolly
Name: James Jolly
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Kinneff, Kincardine
Parish Number: 250
Civil parish: Arbuthnott
County: Kincardineshire
Address: Millplough
Occupation: Farmer Of 172 Ac Employing 4 Lab
ED: 2
Page: 14 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 54
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1851_53
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Black 14
James Jolly 34
James Jolly 5
Jean Jolly 7 Mo
John Jolly 2
Margaret Jolly 6
Mary Jolly 27
David Milne 20
Helen Reid 23
William Stott 20


So then after viewing the others on the page through ancestry and noting the order of the names and seeing that the one directly above James was a servant in the next door household....so not a whole line of Do's ....I opted for the serious SP Wildcard approach and search for baby Jean *ly in the right county and parish age 0-1 and here's the result

1851 TOLLY JEAN F 0 ARBUTHNOTT /KINCARDINE 250/00 002/00 014

looks like a misread on the "J"

Best wishes
Jean

[Jamboesque]

Thanks Jean.

Guess I didn't think enough out the 'wild card' box. I'll keep that name variation in mind for other non-appearances, though I would have to question the indexers eyesight when you see the J, how it could be read as a T, maybe it was at the end of a long day!

I'll get the hang of this, one day.

Jack

[DavidWW]

Initial capitals can often be a difficult area as regards interpretation.

In this case, unfortuately, there isn't a capital "T" for comparison on the same page, but in defence of the indexer, this enumerator's hand has capital "J"s that don't extend below the line. There is a capital "F", from which I'd suspect that his "T" might be very similar to his "J".

On the other hand, in three of the 5 lines following the line with the surname, there are given names starting with "J", never mind the Head of Household himself, - James ...................

This is where familiarity comes in, - the given names have to be James, John and Jean to anyone even with minimal training.

Faced with "TOLLY" I'd question that on the basis of my knowledge of Scottish surnames. There's only another two entries for TOLLY in the 1851 census, also in the county of Kincardine, and both obviously JOLLY; along with only 3 deaths in all the on-line BMDs, - one of which is defintutely a JOLLY, the second a TOLLY, with the third most likely LOLLY !

For the sake of comparison, across the online BMDs, there's getting on for 3,500 entries for JOLLY !

David