Ohhhhh For Gawds Sake!!!!!!

[Miss Poohs]

I've seen it all now

I've had loads of variations on name spelling, years wide of the mark with DOB and down right age lies on marriage certs, but the wrong/different spouse name and date of marriage on a birth cert AAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

On the 1881 census James and Rose Ann Bonner appear to have a 1 yr old baby boy - John, born Hamilton Lanark.

So I had a rummage for his birth cert - which I think I found - John James Bonner born 10.10.1879.

Except his mum is registered as Catherine Bonner (ms Stewart), while his father is James Bonner with a date of marriage as 13.9.1875.

This marriage doesn't exist - at least I can't find it, besides James is married to Rose Ann and has been since May 1857!!!

Then the plot thickens - 2.6.1881 baby John James Bonner dies of Whooping Cough and low and behold his parents are registered as James and Rose Ann Bonner (ms Colqhoun)!!!

Gaunie sumbuddy explain that tae me -

[HeatherH]

Hello Miss Poohs,
Is it possible James Bonnar and Rose Ann Colqhoun who married in 1857 had a son James who marries a Catherine Stewart and have a wee son born in 1879 who for some reason lives with his grandparents and later is adopted by them or at least they claim him as their own due to the living arrangement?
In my family My grans Parents were only married a little over a year before her father died. Thay had just enough time for 1 of everything. One christmas, One child and 1 anniversary.Then my Gran was raised by her grandparents in Millport and her Mum stayed in Paisley not marrying again for 12 years.
Its just a thought for you to look into.
Happy Hunting,
HeatherH

[Miss Poohs]

Ok what I now have is -

Catherine Bonner married Duncan Stewart 13 Sept 1875. Catherine's parents are Rosina and James Bonar.

Then we have the birth of baby John James 10 Oct 1879, with his grandfather (James Bonner) registered as his father, and his mum Catherine (declaring her self as Catherine Bonner MS Stewart) as his mother, marriage date 13 Set 1875!!! Catherine Bonner is the informant and declares herself - mother.

Then John James dies 2 June 1881 of whooping cough, his parents are declared as James and Roseann Bonner (MS Colqhoun).

I realise back in those days it was common for babies to be adopted by their grandparents - but isn't it a bit odd to declare the grandfather as the father on the birth cert?

[trish1]

Could it be that Roseann was too ill to register the child - so she sent her daughter along to do so & daughter found only the mother could register a child - so Catherine became the mother, but she gave the correct father?

Where was Catherine in 1881 - did she have other children? The most likely I found is born Rosshire, living Glasgow & has children George D 1 and John M 2 (being a similar age to John James) Duncan is listed as a Constable.

Trish

[DavidWW]

Anyone considered suitably qualified by the registrar could register a birth, and this could include a sibling. Age limit?, - depended on the registrar, but could be as low as 14.

David

[Miss Poohs]

Catherine has clearly signed the BC in her own maiden name, not her married name and stated herself as the mother. It's odd that she stated her maiden name Stewart as this was actually her married surname, but has used her marriage date to Duncan on the cert.

I'm scratching ma heid here - it's all very confusing.

On Catherine and Duncans marriage cert I have Duncan's occupation as a Mason (journeyman) aged 24. I did see that other couple living in Rosshire, I'll have a closer look at them.

I have traced another son, who appears on the 1891 census living with Catherines sister Sarah Hislop and her family. John Stewart - 15 and a miner, no sign of mum and dad though.

[trish1]

Anyone considered suitably qualified by the registrar could register a birth, and this could include a sibling. Age limit?, - depended on the registrar, but could be as low as 14.

David

Reading the rules it seems to be considered rare for someone other than a parent to register the child. I can imagine the daughter becoming confused. Perhaps the registrar reversed the single/married names because he expected them in the reverse order, given the name of the child

Trish

[duncanstewart]

Hi There, Miss Poohs, Duncan & Catherine had a son James Stewart who was brought up by Catherine's parents James Bonner and Rose ann Calquhoune, James was Born on the 25th Aug 1876, He married Isabella Barrie on the 27th Oct 1899, their son Duncan Charles Stewart (my grandfather) was born on the 23rd Aug 1900 and died <after 1961> in Dundee, their son <name removed> was born in 1929 and died <after 1961>, he married my mother in 1953, My name is Duncan <further names removed> born in <full date removed> 1955... and my son's name is <full name removed> born in <full date removed> 1986......Going back to Duncan & Catherine, Duncan's Father and mother were Alexander Stewart and Isabella Robinson who's address is registered as 60 Muir Street, Hamilton, Lanark. Can't find their marrage cert or Duncan's DOB. It appears that they all lived at that address in Sept 1875! What Happened to Catherine? there is a Family story about Duncan as a stone mason he fell to his death, can't find his death cert nor Catherine's "strange". Can you shed some light on the matter?

[LesleyB]

Hi Duncan
And Welcome to Talking Scot
I have removed a few dates and full names from your post, for your own security as although they are your close family, for many reasons it is a good idea not to post full names and dates of birth of living or recently deceased persons on line where they may be seen by everyone, not just members of this forum. For further info see our guidelines. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6601

If you wish to give full detials to a member, you can do so by Private Message.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Montrose Budie]

Anyone considered suitably qualified by the registrar could register a birth, and this could include a sibling. Age limit?, - depended on the registrar, but could be as low as 14.

David

Reading the rules it seems to be considered rare for someone other than a parent to register the child. I can imagine the daughter becoming confused. Perhaps the registrar reversed the single/married names because he expected them in the reverse order, given the name of the child

Trish

What rules ?

Rare?, - hardly !

I've come across plenty of births registered by siblings, grandparents, uncles, aunts, great-uncles, great-aunts, cousins, and a richt guid wheen o' ither folk, including doctors, midwifes, and Poor House Governors, plus more !

As Bisset-Smith's 1907 Vital Registration - A Manual of the Law and Practice concerning The Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages quite simply states, anyone considered suitably qualified by the registrar could register a birth, and this could include a sibling, quite possibly down to the age of 14.

The key factor was that they had knowledge of the birth, and were considered by the registrar as a suitable informant.

mb