My Grandfather John Hill born 1887 in Castle Douglas, Kirkcudbrightshire. He was a man of mystery and my Mother knew very little of her Fathers family as they had nothing to do with him and he never talked about them. I just found out he was the youngest of a family of seven, ggrandfather James Hill was a Grocer and moved about a little and traced him back to the 1861 Census
1861 Census Scotland Kirkcudbrightshire Kirkgunzeon
Byrecroft Farm House
James Hill serv Unmarr 13 Ag Lab born Urr Kirkcudbright
I would like to find him in the 1851 and 1841 Census to find more about his family
I would also like to find more about the brothers and sisters of my Grandfather John Hill
James Hill Born 1872 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census he is listed as Aged 19 Grocers Assistant living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census
Robert Hill Born 1874 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census he is listed as Aged 17 Sadler living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census
Martha Hill Born 1875 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census she is listed as Aged 16 Milliner living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census
Margaret Hill Born 1877 Kelton, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census she is listed as Aged 13 Scholar living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census
William Hill Born 1881 Kelton, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census he is listed as Aged 10 Scholar living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census
Ellan (Helen) Hill Born 1884 Castle Douglas in the 1901 Census she is listed as Aged 17 Grocer's Daughter living with her parents at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Thanks in anticipation
Ian Fulton
James Hills Urr Kirkcudbright 1841 1851 Census .....
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legsby
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joette
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A Warm Welcome to TalkingScot Ian & I hope we can help in your quest.
Have you had a look at the 1851 Census on Scotlands People?He would not have been around for the 1841 Census by my calculation.
I would also try Freecen to see if he is with his family inthe 1851 which as he would be about 3 I would expect him to be.Do you have any death info with his parentage mentioned.
What is it you would like to know?How experienced are you? Have a look at our sources in the Gallery it may give you some ideas as to where to go next.
Have you had a look at the 1851 Census on Scotlands People?He would not have been around for the 1841 Census by my calculation.
I would also try Freecen to see if he is with his family inthe 1851 which as he would be about 3 I would expect him to be.Do you have any death info with his parentage mentioned.
What is it you would like to know?How experienced are you? Have a look at our sources in the Gallery it may give you some ideas as to where to go next.
Researching:SCOTT,Taylor,Young,VEITCH LINLEY,MIDLOTHIAN
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AnneM
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Hi Ian
I am probably being very stupid but search as I might I cannot find the birth of the correct John Hill in 1887 in Kirkudbright or Dumfries. Have you found his birth certificate. I agree that he appears to be there on the 1891 census but I can't see his birth
Are you sure he is the right John Hill?
If he is his parents married in 1870 and his paternal grandparents were William and Martha Hill but I'm a bitty bothered about not being able to trace the birth at present. Do you definitely have the BC and what am I missing?
Anne
I am probably being very stupid but search as I might I cannot find the birth of the correct John Hill in 1887 in Kirkudbright or Dumfries. Have you found his birth certificate. I agree that he appears to be there on the 1891 census but I can't see his birth
Are you sure he is the right John Hill?
If he is his parents married in 1870 and his paternal grandparents were William and Martha Hill but I'm a bitty bothered about not being able to trace the birth at present. Do you definitely have the BC and what am I missing?
Anne
Anne
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DavidWW
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Hint
The age is census derived
, plus there's an error in the calculation of the year of birth.
Just to complicate life, if you've narrowed the search to the county of Kirkcudbright. you won't find it as the parish of Kelton (which contains Castle Douglas) has been wrongly allocated to the county of Dumfries.
David
The age is census derived
, plus there's an error in the calculation of the year of birth.Just to complicate life, if you've narrowed the search to the county of Kirkcudbright. you won't find it as the parish of Kelton (which contains Castle Douglas) has been wrongly allocated to the county of Dumfries.
David
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AnneM
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Maybe but I'd tried Dumfries as well and several years either side. Have you found him David? I found his big sister Ellen OK in 1884 but no John who admittedly should have been 1885 or 6 which I definitely looked for.
Even did H*ll. Must be being really blind.
Anne
Even did H*ll. Must be being really blind.
Anne
Anne
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AnneM
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Got him at last. I must have forgotten to do 1885 Dumfries though I thought I had! Wee blighter was born on 6th December so he's not as close to sister Ellen as I thought would be for 1885. Obviously my brain is not working as well as it should.
Anyway our man is there on 6th December 1885 to James Hill and Margaret Jardine. This makes his grandparents William Hill and Martha Murray as his parents married in 1870 in Caerlaverock. What's more he has aunts and uncles,
Margaret 1858 born Kirkgudzeon
Marjory 1865 born Urr
Female 1868 Urr
William 1860 Urr
Martha 1863 Kirkpatrick Durham
Do not seem to be any noted pre statutory registration.
Anne
Anyway our man is there on 6th December 1885 to James Hill and Margaret Jardine. This makes his grandparents William Hill and Martha Murray as his parents married in 1870 in Caerlaverock. What's more he has aunts and uncles,
Margaret 1858 born Kirkgudzeon
Marjory 1865 born Urr
Female 1868 Urr
William 1860 Urr
Martha 1863 Kirkpatrick Durham
Do not seem to be any noted pre statutory registration.
Anne
Anne
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AnneM
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This is really sad. Martha and William had a really bad time.
Young Martha died aged 2 1/2 years in 1865 cause of death unknown and then Martha senior aged 40 had another female child in 1868 following which she died of general debility and the baby died shortly before that for lack of breast milk. There were no medical attendants in any case and William does not seem to have known the name of Martha's parents.
It just sounds awful!!
Anne
Forgot to add that Martha's birth gives William and Martha as having married in August 1851 in Dumfries. That would be after young James's birth. Can't find them on the 1851 census and wonder if they were back in Ireland where according to the 1871 William was born.
Young Martha died aged 2 1/2 years in 1865 cause of death unknown and then Martha senior aged 40 had another female child in 1868 following which she died of general debility and the baby died shortly before that for lack of breast milk. There were no medical attendants in any case and William does not seem to have known the name of Martha's parents.
It just sounds awful!!
Anne
Forgot to add that Martha's birth gives William and Martha as having married in August 1851 in Dumfries. That would be after young James's birth. Can't find them on the 1851 census and wonder if they were back in Ireland where according to the 1871 William was born.
Anne
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AnneM
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In 1861 the family is in Urr.
The family is as follows
William head aged 34 ag lab born Ireland
Martha wife aged 41 born Ireland
Mary Ann daur aged 13 born Urr
John son aged 9 born Urr
Elenor daur aged 6 born Urr
Margaret daur aged 3 born Urr
William son aged 6 mo born Urr
Anne
The family is as follows
William head aged 34 ag lab born Ireland
Martha wife aged 41 born Ireland
Mary Ann daur aged 13 born Urr
John son aged 9 born Urr
Elenor daur aged 6 born Urr
Margaret daur aged 3 born Urr
William son aged 6 mo born Urr
Anne
Anne
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AnneM
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I'd never come across this before but the child who was born on 3rd July 1865 was originally called Marjory but there is an RCE changing her name to Martha dated 13th March 1866. The older Martha died on 24th August 1865 so the parents must have changed the name of the new baby after the wee girl died.
Anne
Anne
Anne
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Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
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DavidWW
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Hi Ian
Welcome to TalkingScot.
I'd intended to respond in detail earlier, but matters such as selling the house took precedence 
From your first post it's not clear just what info have already, so that some of what follows may be redundant.
From the 1891 census you have the names of the 7 children of James and Margaret HILL, - given Margaret's age, it's far from impossible that there were more kids, who will show up in 1901.
Any of the birth register entries derived from 1891 will give the info on the place and date of the marriage of James HILL and Margaret JARDINE, and that marriage record gives you the names of the grandparents of your John.
There's then two areas to look at, - firstly death register entries for William HILL and Martha MAS[S][A/O]N, and James JARDINE and Catherine IRVING.
I haven't looked at the JARDINE side, but the death register entries for William and Martha are straightforward to locate. Look first for Martha's, using both surnames, ensuring that you use wildcards to cover MAS[S][A/O]N and the like variations. Her marital status at death gives you an end or start date to look for William's death. Both survived to a good old age!
Unfortunately, the info on the parents of one of them is totally missing, but then there is the info on the name of the informant, a son-in-law.
Going back to 1861, it's unclear if you have the census record for the rest of the family apart from James. Incidentally, altho' the record that you have found for James in the 1861 census as an Ag Lab looks very likely to be "yours" on the basis of age and place of birth, as well as absence from the househoild of his parents, there's no way of proving this!
The entry for the rest of the family possibly explains why they can't be found in the 1851 census as Maw and Paw were born in Ireland.
Although the eldest child in 1861 is shown as born in Urr, I'd have to wonder if this is an error, and she was born in Ireland, or, even if she was born in Urr, that the family were back in Ireland at the time of the 1851 census.
While it's always possible that a family were missed from the census, HILL as a surname has so few variants, never mind also the possibility of searching on ScotlandsPeople on the basis of ?ILL in case of a misinterpretation of the initial capital letter, so that I'd tend to the belief that the family weren't in Scotland in 1851...........
Unfortunately the birth records for the kids younger kids shown in the 1861 census entry fall into the period when the place and date of the marriage of the parents isn't shown, and the 6 year old, most unfortunately, wasn't born in 1855
David
Welcome to TalkingScot.
I'd intended to respond in detail earlier, but matters such as selling the house took precedence
From your first post it's not clear just what info have already, so that some of what follows may be redundant.
From the 1891 census you have the names of the 7 children of James and Margaret HILL, - given Margaret's age, it's far from impossible that there were more kids, who will show up in 1901.
Any of the birth register entries derived from 1891 will give the info on the place and date of the marriage of James HILL and Margaret JARDINE, and that marriage record gives you the names of the grandparents of your John.
There's then two areas to look at, - firstly death register entries for William HILL and Martha MAS[S][A/O]N, and James JARDINE and Catherine IRVING.
I haven't looked at the JARDINE side, but the death register entries for William and Martha are straightforward to locate. Look first for Martha's, using both surnames, ensuring that you use wildcards to cover MAS[S][A/O]N and the like variations. Her marital status at death gives you an end or start date to look for William's death. Both survived to a good old age!
Unfortunately, the info on the parents of one of them is totally missing, but then there is the info on the name of the informant, a son-in-law.
Going back to 1861, it's unclear if you have the census record for the rest of the family apart from James. Incidentally, altho' the record that you have found for James in the 1861 census as an Ag Lab looks very likely to be "yours" on the basis of age and place of birth, as well as absence from the househoild of his parents, there's no way of proving this!
The entry for the rest of the family possibly explains why they can't be found in the 1851 census as Maw and Paw were born in Ireland.
Although the eldest child in 1861 is shown as born in Urr, I'd have to wonder if this is an error, and she was born in Ireland, or, even if she was born in Urr, that the family were back in Ireland at the time of the 1851 census.
While it's always possible that a family were missed from the census, HILL as a surname has so few variants, never mind also the possibility of searching on ScotlandsPeople on the basis of ?ILL in case of a misinterpretation of the initial capital letter, so that I'd tend to the belief that the family weren't in Scotland in 1851...........
Unfortunately the birth records for the kids younger kids shown in the 1861 census entry fall into the period when the place and date of the marriage of the parents isn't shown, and the 6 year old, most unfortunately, wasn't born in 1855
David