The Christian Watt Papers
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Re: The Christian Watt Papers
Hi David & Wilma,
David - Here is my reading in English of Heid or Hert:
"Allan, I am right thankful to the bull (boy cow) for putting an end to your place."
"What place, my dear?"
"The place between your head and your heart."
"And the heart won."
"Yes, the heart won." said Mary, looking up with soft deep (walls of een??? maybe tears?) ( Could be tears, it would work.)
Alan put his arms around her and gave her a long fond kiss.
I am glad that you told me that heid or hert meant head or heart. But how did I do? I don't understand the 'walls of een'.
Wilma- I am certain that the Scot's language is a mixture of English, Gaelic and no doubt Viking and probably French words. What I still don't understand is why some parts of it are called Doric. A language that came into Greece in the 12th century BC. What on Earth had Greece have to do with Scotland? It is not exactly next door, is it.
I hope that you have a good time on your trip.
David - Here is my reading in English of Heid or Hert:
"Allan, I am right thankful to the bull (boy cow) for putting an end to your place."
"What place, my dear?"
"The place between your head and your heart."
"And the heart won."
"Yes, the heart won." said Mary, looking up with soft deep (walls of een??? maybe tears?) ( Could be tears, it would work.)
Alan put his arms around her and gave her a long fond kiss.
I am glad that you told me that heid or hert meant head or heart. But how did I do? I don't understand the 'walls of een'.
Wilma- I am certain that the Scot's language is a mixture of English, Gaelic and no doubt Viking and probably French words. What I still don't understand is why some parts of it are called Doric. A language that came into Greece in the 12th century BC. What on Earth had Greece have to do with Scotland? It is not exactly next door, is it.
I hope that you have a good time on your trip.
Sheila
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Re: The Christian Watt Papers
Hi Sheila
I must admit I had no idea why my mither tongue is call Doric but this might shed some light
http://www.scotslanguage.com/books/view/72/2203
And as to Broad Scots, my understanding was just a very thick heavy accent - like it says under Learn About Doric here
http://www.thedoricfestival.com/history.html
You can't get much broader Doric than in The Broch . Baw Scots is something different again
Like Wilma we got slapped down for speaking Scots in school, I even got told off for falling into speaking Doric on the phone at work 12 years ago - and I was talking to someone in Peterhead and couldn't help myself! So I am glad the schools are taking it on now.
I must admit I had no idea why my mither tongue is call Doric but this might shed some light
http://www.scotslanguage.com/books/view/72/2203
And as to Broad Scots, my understanding was just a very thick heavy accent - like it says under Learn About Doric here
http://www.thedoricfestival.com/history.html
You can't get much broader Doric than in The Broch . Baw Scots is something different again
Like Wilma we got slapped down for speaking Scots in school, I even got told off for falling into speaking Doric on the phone at work 12 years ago - and I was talking to someone in Peterhead and couldn't help myself! So I am glad the schools are taking it on now.
Maggie
Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer
Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer
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Re: The Christian Watt Papers
Hi Moray Lass,
"Eureka!" As the Ancient Greek Archimdes said, I have found it! Thank you for sending me to that site. So the term Doric is a modern invention. ( By Modern, I mean anything later than the 16th Century.) I was really scratching my head wondering how the term Doric got into Scotland.
After reading the explanation, I wonder if maybe the People of Scotland should drop the term Doric and call it instead Scots or Gaelic. Does anyone have an opinion as to that? In the end I don't suppose it makes any difference anyway, isn't the whole purpose of language to understand and be understood?
"Eureka!" As the Ancient Greek Archimdes said, I have found it! Thank you for sending me to that site. So the term Doric is a modern invention. ( By Modern, I mean anything later than the 16th Century.) I was really scratching my head wondering how the term Doric got into Scotland.
After reading the explanation, I wonder if maybe the People of Scotland should drop the term Doric and call it instead Scots or Gaelic. Does anyone have an opinion as to that? In the end I don't suppose it makes any difference anyway, isn't the whole purpose of language to understand and be understood?
Sheila
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- Location: Fife,Scotland
Re: The Christian Watt Papers
Hi Ladies,i really appreciate all your input into this,because i think we are all learning something,i know i am.Firstly i will translate the text for Sheila,i will give her 9/10 as she was just about spot on =D>As they turned,she looked up into his face with sweet eyes and said: "Allan,I am thankful to the bull for putting an end to your fight" "what fight my dear?""the fight between your head and your heart,"" "And the heart won", "Yes the heart won," said Mary,looking up with soft deep walls of eyes.Allan put his arms round her,and gave her a long fond kiss. Who hasn't had a fecht between the heid and the hert.? I am now confused did two of these ladies say that they were actvely dis-couraged from speaking there own tounge in the late 20th century?What was that all about? David
Banks,Bennet-Clark,Bird,Cholat,Clark,Clay,Dupre,Dupuis,Fraser,Grant,Gunn,Hooper
Kelly,Leburn,Livingston,MacDonald,Paris,Reymond,Russell,Sommerville,Sutherland & Watson.All Scottish searches,apart from the four obvious French names.Merci Beaucoup !!!
Kelly,Leburn,Livingston,MacDonald,Paris,Reymond,Russell,Sommerville,Sutherland & Watson.All Scottish searches,apart from the four obvious French names.Merci Beaucoup !!!
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- Location: Australia
Re: The Christian Watt Papers
I reckon it’s probably meant to be “looking up with soft deep wells of eyes” as by Tolstoy “his eyes like deep wells of light”.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=mne ... es&f=false
Or this bit from 1861 ‘those eyes which were like deep wells of water, growing darker and bluer the farther you looked down in them.” http://books.google.com.au/books?id=HIz ... 22&f=false
All the best,
Alan
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=mne ... es&f=false
Or this bit from 1861 ‘those eyes which were like deep wells of water, growing darker and bluer the farther you looked down in them.” http://books.google.com.au/books?id=HIz ... 22&f=false
All the best,
Alan
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Re: The Christian Watt Papers
Hi Sheila
Before reading that I would have put the Doric name down to coincidence myself
Doric is a dialect of Scots, but it is localised to one large area - I have a harder time ready Burns because he uses words I wouldn't. So calling it Scots isn't wrong, but it is definitely not Gaelic - the closet I come to speaking Gaelic are in place names that have very old Gaelic roots, like Auchenhalrig, which I understand mean 'place to chase the deer' (and you do).
If you want to hear Doric at it's best try any clips of Scotland the What you can find on the internet, or their current replacement Desperate Fishwives
http://www.flyingpigproductions.co.uk/index.php
I particularly like this audio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XED4rL9vj8
And I hear Trawlermen made by the BBC is big in the US - sort of like a Scottish Deadliest Catch. That one comes with subtitles, even in Britain!
Happy listening!
Sorry David I missed your last line Yes it was definite discouraged to speak Scots in school in the 60/70. And in that job I was in it was considered unprofessional to not speak properly, which I did 99.9% of the time, but I kept slipping when I spoke to our sites in the NE because they spoke it to me. In the 2011 census I put down speaking Scots first and English second, and I spoke Scots at home.
Before reading that I would have put the Doric name down to coincidence myself
Doric is a dialect of Scots, but it is localised to one large area - I have a harder time ready Burns because he uses words I wouldn't. So calling it Scots isn't wrong, but it is definitely not Gaelic - the closet I come to speaking Gaelic are in place names that have very old Gaelic roots, like Auchenhalrig, which I understand mean 'place to chase the deer' (and you do).
If you want to hear Doric at it's best try any clips of Scotland the What you can find on the internet, or their current replacement Desperate Fishwives
http://www.flyingpigproductions.co.uk/index.php
I particularly like this audio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XED4rL9vj8
And I hear Trawlermen made by the BBC is big in the US - sort of like a Scottish Deadliest Catch. That one comes with subtitles, even in Britain!
Happy listening!
Sorry David I missed your last line Yes it was definite discouraged to speak Scots in school in the 60/70. And in that job I was in it was considered unprofessional to not speak properly, which I did 99.9% of the time, but I kept slipping when I spoke to our sites in the NE because they spoke it to me. In the 2011 census I put down speaking Scots first and English second, and I spoke Scots at home.
Maggie
Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer
Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:42 pm
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Re: The Christian Watt Papers
Hi All,
David, you gave me higher marks than I would have given myself. I would have given myself 5/10. The sentences make more sense with your translations.
Alan-I still don't get the term 'walls of eyes' or even 'wells of eyes'. I suppose that this term was dropped early in the 20th century.
Moray Lass- That audio from 'Desperate Fishwives' was so funny. It certainly gave me a laugh to start my day.
David, you gave me higher marks than I would have given myself. I would have given myself 5/10. The sentences make more sense with your translations.
Alan-I still don't get the term 'walls of eyes' or even 'wells of eyes'. I suppose that this term was dropped early in the 20th century.
Moray Lass- That audio from 'Desperate Fishwives' was so funny. It certainly gave me a laugh to start my day.
Sheila
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Re: The Christian Watt Papers
Hello Sheila,
It’s probably to do with the dilation of the pupils in low light conditions and for reasons connected with physical attraction etc. The pupils of the eyes appear to be very large and dark and deep like the water in a well that you could dive into and swim down forever. Or maybe it’s just people who have black eyes of the non-violent variety.
It appears to have been used a lot in romantic literature over the years.
(Trawlermen rocks, I intended to get the DVD set and forgot.)
That’s my guess,
Alan
It’s probably to do with the dilation of the pupils in low light conditions and for reasons connected with physical attraction etc. The pupils of the eyes appear to be very large and dark and deep like the water in a well that you could dive into and swim down forever. Or maybe it’s just people who have black eyes of the non-violent variety.
It appears to have been used a lot in romantic literature over the years.
(Trawlermen rocks, I intended to get the DVD set and forgot.)
That’s my guess,
Alan
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- Posts: 88
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 8:10 pm
- Location: Fife,Scotland
Re: The Christian Watt Papers
Hi Guy's,I have enjoyed the input from everybody on this topic To think that we have had questions and answers from three Continents,it makes the Planet seem quite small.I'm really glad that Wilma's Son is encouraged or indeed taught to speak Scots =D> This is not a conversation we should be having in the 21st century, but unless we try and protect this wonderful language Scots and the Gaelic may die off.As i said before a lot of the musical and magical sounding words have maistly gone .Wilma quoted one of them Birl or Birlin' ,how could an English word replace that? what about "Smeddum" or "tapsalteerie" or "stramash" or "trauchle" or "hirdum-dirdum" or "forpet o' tatties" or "corrieneuchin" and i love this one "speug" for the house Sparrow.There are thousands of these wonderful words.Strangely Moray Lass ,Wilma and myself, three out of millions, were not just discouraged from using our ain tongue but beaten with the belt or tawse if we slipped from english to Scots and the Moray Lass was told off at work 12 years ago for speakin' the Doric.How on Earth has this come about? Does it go back to 1746 and the aftermath of Culloden Moor,where the Highland Language,Dress and Culture were systematically removed from these poor folk? Or is it something 19th or 20th century? It didn't seem to affect Christian in her long life as she seems to have the perfect grasp of both languages.Anyway,just a thought,Slainte Mhor,David
Banks,Bennet-Clark,Bird,Cholat,Clark,Clay,Dupre,Dupuis,Fraser,Grant,Gunn,Hooper
Kelly,Leburn,Livingston,MacDonald,Paris,Reymond,Russell,Sommerville,Sutherland & Watson.All Scottish searches,apart from the four obvious French names.Merci Beaucoup !!!
Kelly,Leburn,Livingston,MacDonald,Paris,Reymond,Russell,Sommerville,Sutherland & Watson.All Scottish searches,apart from the four obvious French names.Merci Beaucoup !!!
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Re: The Christian Watt Papers
Hello all
my interest in genealogy is only just being fired up, and my search for information about this book lead me to this forum
I have yet to read it and your comments make me want to find a copy
my interest comes from the fact that Christian is my GGGrandmother
and my Mother always spoke of her battle and attitudes and how they shaped her thinking, so in a way they have shaped mine
Susan
my interest in genealogy is only just being fired up, and my search for information about this book lead me to this forum
I have yet to read it and your comments make me want to find a copy
my interest comes from the fact that Christian is my GGGrandmother
and my Mother always spoke of her battle and attitudes and how they shaped her thinking, so in a way they have shaped mine
Susan