Pre 1855

[kilconquhar]

Hi all

I'm struggling with events prior to 1855 and wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction

I have a death certificate in 1866 in Kilconquhar for James Gourlay (lets call him James 2) who is shown as 63. His birth years differs according to 1841 & 1851 Census

I cant find James 2 birth - Can you help ?

His death certificate give his parents as James (lets call him James 1) and Christina (Nee Pearson) who I believe married in 1797

I have James 1 & Christina as 66 & 70 years old on 1841 census
I then have James 1 as 80 on 1851 census
I believe therefore Christina may have died between 1841 and 1851

I cant find the death of James 1 which I believe is between 1851 and 1861 ( if after 1855 should confirm his parents ??)

They may be James and Margaret Lyell or could be Thomas and Margaret Webster

Can anyone help or give pointers on pre 1855 events

Thanks
John

[Tracey]

Hello John

I will just answer the first question re age on census. Here http://www.talkingscot.com/censuses/census-1841.htm will explain how ages were rounded up or down on the 1841 census so its more likely the age on the 1851 is more accurate (but they all fibbed !).

Tracey

[Tracey]

Christina

Ancestry has Christina on 1841 as Christn B - should that be be a P for Pearson ?

She is also named as Christian on the marriage cert
19/11/1797 GOURLAY JAMES CHRISTIAN PEARSON/FR295 M CAMERON /FIFE

The Chritian Gourlay deaths on SP are not her
There are only two Christina Gourlay deaths between 1841 1854, have you discounted them ? (ran out of credits to have peak)

Just talking out loud !

[LesleyB]

I have a death certificate in 1866 in Kilconquhar for James Gourlay (lets call him James 2) who is shown as 63. His birth years differs according to 1841 & 1851 Census

What ages are given for him in each census and where does he state he was born in the 1851 & 1861 census?

I then have James 1 as 80 on 1851 census
I believe therefore Christina may have died between 1841 and 1851

Is James stated as a widower in 1851?

[Tracey]

This could be him in 1851 (if we are assuming Fife to be BP) although there is another one born same year in Kinglassie, Fife

1851Name: James Gourlay
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1804
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Kilconquhar, Fifeshire
Parish Number: 436
Civil parish: Kilconquhar
Town: Kilconquhar
County: Fife
Address: Manse
Occupation: Formerly Coal Miner
ED: 1
Page: 16 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 67
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1851_90
Household Members: Name Age
James Gourlay 47 Head
Elizabeth Gourlay 48 Wife
Elizabeth Gourlay 12 Daughter
Alexander Gourlay 10 Son

Possible 1861
Name: James Gourlay
Age: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1805
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Kilconquhar, Fife
Registration Number: 436
Registration district: Kilconquhar
Civil parish: Kilconquhar
County: Fife
Address: 27 Vill Road N Side
Occupation: Ag Lab
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 30
Line: 18
Roll: CSSCT1861_57
Household Members: Name Age
James Gourlay 56

Doesn’t state marital / family situation, maybe end of page on SP so anyone else in houshold not included on Ancestry ?


Poss 1841
Name: James Gourlay
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Fife, Scotland
Civil parish: Kilconquhar
County: Fife
Address: Kilconq
Occupation: Labr Ag
Parish Number: 436
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Gourlay 35
Elizth R Gourlay 37
James Gourlay 12
John Gourlay 9
Elizth Gourlay 3
Alexr Gourlay 5 Mo

[LesleyB]

Ah, I see we have looked into this family before - this may help give some more background info:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10502
I'm going to lock the older post so that any replies to the newer request are all kept here in the one place.

It looks to me as if there are going to be no quick answers to this one...There appear to be births and deaths for the years in question for Kilconquhar according to http://www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/pd ... 9to459.pdf, however, there is no telling from that how complete the recorded years are. It seems odd that there appear to be no Gourlay births to James and Christian/Christina on IGI or SP, yet their marriage and what seem to be the children of James junr are listed on IGI. If they had not been appearing at all I'd have been thinking they were attending a Church which was not CoS. Wonder why there is no sign...? A good idea may be to go and check out the OPRs on microfilm to see what they are like, both the births around 1800 or so, and the 1840-55 deaths - to get an idea how well kept and how regular the entries appear to be, but you may have done this already?

[LesleyB]

I cant find the death of James 1 which I believe is between 1851 and 1861

Looking at the earlier post, ( viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10502) I see a date of death was suggested at that point for James the elder by ChristineW:

On the Fife Pre-1855 Death Index there are only two James Gourlays listed in your time period. Only one entry could be your James.
The first is James GOURLY, Abode: Kilconquhar, Date of Burial: 27 August, 1853. (The source credited for this information is Fife Council, Lair Regist.) Unfortunately, there is absolutely no other information detailed.

Have you followed this one up? Is it not the correct James?

[kilconquhar]

Many thanks for your all your responses so far

Unfortunately I've not been able to follow up the possible death of James 1 so far.
I thought I'd asked at the time how i would do this (it doesn't appear on SP ) but i cant see it now - how do I go about that?
As its before 1855 what level of information would I get ? Would I get His parents, witness etc?

James does appear as widowed on 1851 census.
I also cant see her death on SP. Tracey - Where are the two you saw?

Was 19/11/1797 the marriage of James & Christian
I have an OPR extract of that and one from 9th Dec 1797. I understood both to be Banns of marriage and in response http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ght=#81501, Russell thought it unlikely the later data was the marriage

[kilconquhar]

Tracey

Many thanks for the census Info - These are James 2 - His spouse and children are known to me

I was hoping he may not be an only child but 1841 census doesn't suggest siblings in a similar age bracket

[Tracey]

The census are from Ancestry and what you see above is all you get, you cant view the original image.

The deaths were on SP.

As to the information on a pre 1855 death
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=554&627

Deaths & Burials

More often than not you will find only the name of the person who has died, with a date, and sometimes even just the surname. Such paucity of information can make it extremely difficult to pinpoint the correct person.
In the case of a mortcloth hire, there is usually a record of the payment made. Some parishes had several mortcloths for hire, of varying quality, including a child’s one and the fee will vary accordingly.

Sometimes you will find extra information. Besides the name of the person who has died, the date of death and/or date of burial, you may find the name of a relative (e.g. spouse, father), the place or parish of residence, and sometimes the occupation of the person/father/spouse. A few registers will give cause of death and some age at death. There may be more detail recorded on the death/burial of important and well-to-do members of the parish.

Is there a chance that they died in the same place they lived ? are there published MI's that might help you.
I didnt view the actual marriage entry of James and Christian only the result on SP search.