Help with OPR certificate

Parish Records and other sources

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speleobat2
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:14 pm
Location: USA--Alabama

Help with OPR certificate

Post by speleobat2 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:55 pm

Hi all,

Need some help with this one: http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad10 ... aretmc.jpg

When I did a search for a marriage between Margaret Harvey and John Allan I got three results--two in Belhelvie and one in Aberdeen (city). The two in Belhelvie are the same date and the one in Aberdeen is three days later. I bought the Aberdeen certificate because they have lots of information. What puzzles me is that on the certificate it says that the Rev. John Allan was married at Perth to Margaret Harvey. I have found no marriage at Perth for these two so if they were married there, why is the marriage registered in Aberdeen and not in Perth?

Any ideas would be very welcome!

Carol :?
Looking for: Clerihew, Longmuir/Longmore, Chalmers, Milne, Barclay in Newhills,
Munro, Cadenhead, Raitt, Ririe/Reary

Isabel H
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Help with OPR certificate

Post by Isabel H » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:49 pm

Hi
The Banns had to be proclaimed and recorded in the parishes of residence of bride and groom, in this case Aberdeen and Belhelvie, although I don't know why you found two in Belhelvie. The fact that the Aberdeen proclamation gives the place of marriage is a bonus, since the actual date of marriage was not always recorded.
According to the Fast Ecclesiae Scoticanae vol. VI the groom was from Tarbolton in Ayrshire, so perhaps they married in Perth as it's roughly halfway between their home towns.
You can download and search the Fasti for his entry here:
http://www.archive.org/details/fastiecclesiu06scotuoft

Isabel

AndrewP
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Location: Edinburgh

Re: Help with OPR certificate

Post by AndrewP » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:55 pm

Hi Carol,

The marriage was carried out by the minister of the Free West Church, Perth. On that basis, any Perth announcement is likely to be in the register of the Free Church, rather than registers of the Established Church of Scotland (the OPRs).

On looking at the NAS online catalog http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/ , there is no sign of any marriage registers for that church. There are baptismal rolls, Kirk Session minutes and various other papers, but nothing obvious for marriages.

NAS record set CH3/1253 (CH3/1253/1 to CH3/1253/19)

All the best,

AndrewP

speleobat2
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:14 pm
Location: USA--Alabama

Re: Help with OPR certificate

Post by speleobat2 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:13 am

Thanks to both Isabel and Andrew.

Isabel, I'll have a look at your link shortly.

I'm still confused. I thought that the banns were read in the churches of the bride and groom and then they would be married in one of the two or, at least, by a minister from one of the two churches since many of the weddings seem to have taken place in the bride's home, or a hotel, etc. Does this mean that they could have the banns read in the churches of the bride and groom and then they could go off and be married somewhere else by a different minister and still register the marriage in their home parishes (Aberdeen and Belhelvie) ? It's the registration part that I'm not clear on.

Carol :?
Looking for: Clerihew, Longmuir/Longmore, Chalmers, Milne, Barclay in Newhills,
Munro, Cadenhead, Raitt, Ririe/Reary

AndrewP
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Location: Edinburgh

Re: Help with OPR certificate

Post by AndrewP » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:57 am

Hi Carol,

The OPRs are used for the pre-1855 days. From 1855, it was statutory registration via the registrar for GROS. Pre-1855, the parochial registers which became the OPRs were held by the (Established) Church of Scotland for each parish. In most cases, these were records of baptisms, proclamations of banns and burials rather than births, marriages and deaths. It was not a legal obligation to have this record made, it was more down to the diligence of the session clerk (the usual officer of the church responsible for the upkeep of these registers amongst his other responsibilities). Although all of the baptisms, proclamations of banns and burials in the parish were supposed to be reported to the session clerk, in practice it was usually only those events held in the (Established) Church of Scotland that were inscribed there. There are events from other churches in the parish recorded in some OPRs, these are a small minority.

My understanding is that the banns should have been proclaimed in the home parishes of the bride and the groom, and in the parish where the marriage was intended to take place. So some banns were called in up to three churches, and hence recorded in up to three OPRs. It was intended that people of the churches that the couple were connected to all had the chance to say that the couple were not legally fit to be married.The record of a proclamation of banns on its own is not proof that the wedding actually took place, unless that is specifically mentioned in the OPR. Most of the OPRs will state that the proclamations were called up to three times in that church (usually on successive Sabbaths) and no objections were made by anyone in the congregation.

If the banns were called in a church other than the (Established) Church of Scotland, then there may be a record in the registers of that church, and these may now be in the National Archives of Scotland, in the Scottish Cathiolic Archives, or still in the care of the church. The Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages (Scotland) Act 1854 called that all of the Parochial Registers up to 1819 be deposited into the care of GROS in 1855, and the Parochial Registers of 1820 to 1854 be deposited into the same care in 1885. These were the official registers of each parish.

The registers belonging to the other churches, although official to each of these churches, were not the official registers of the parish, so the same Act did not call them in for safe keeping. Most non-established churches have deposited their records with what is now the National Archives of Scotland (formerly the Scottish Record Office). I don't think there is an Act to call these recods in for safe keeping, so these are less likely to be a full set of records. I think it is more down to the individual churches, possibly with guidance from their church leadership.

All the best,

AndrewP

speleobat2
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:14 pm
Location: USA--Alabama

Re: Help with OPR certificate

Post by speleobat2 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:16 pm

Thanks Andrew,

That was a terrific explanation. I guess I was thinking that church requirements were more rigid than they were in reality meaning that if you belonged to a church and had the banns called there, then you'd better be married by that church or you couldn't be registered in its register.

The funny part of this is that the person I started out researching apparently couldn't be dragged to the altar! She had 3-5 illegitimate children.

Carol :D
Looking for: Clerihew, Longmuir/Longmore, Chalmers, Milne, Barclay in Newhills,
Munro, Cadenhead, Raitt, Ririe/Reary

Montrose Budie
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:37 pm

Re: Help with OPR certificate

Post by Montrose Budie » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:14 pm

If one of both of the couple had only recently moved into the parish it was quite common to find the banns proclaimed in the parish of origin as well.

While proclamation over three successive Sundays was the norm it is quite common to find banns cried over three services on just two Sundays, and, occasionally, if the matter was "urgent" three times on the same Sunday. In this latter case, it was common for there to be a period of 72 hours before the marriage could proceed, to allow adequate time for objections.

mb

speleobat2
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:14 pm
Location: USA--Alabama

Re: Help with OPR certificate

Post by speleobat2 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:26 pm

Thanks mb,

Yes, my 2x Clerihew great grandparents had one of those "urgent" cases--the baby was born a month after the marriage! They had the banns called on two Sundays and tried to get it done twice on the last Sunday. Ended up married, but cited for "antenuptial fornication" and were fined by the church.

Carol :D
Looking for: Clerihew, Longmuir/Longmore, Chalmers, Milne, Barclay in Newhills,
Munro, Cadenhead, Raitt, Ririe/Reary