Irregular Marriage OPR

[Grothenwell]

Hi,
Would the OPR quoted below be classed as a sherriff's warrant of an Irregular marriage? I haven't came across a marriage OPR in this format before and I hope someone can explain if it is this and the liklihood that this is possibly an Episcopalian marriage or a "common law" marriage made "official". Although I have been told that irregular marriages were indeed legal. It is a marriage of possible ancestors of mine and the person who sent it got it on SP. It is the St Nicholas parish of Aberdeen, and is as follows:

Aberdeen 31st Oct 1774
............
Also by warrant of Mr Ogilvie James Mackie Flaxdresser in Aberdeen and Chritien Walker residenter there. Cautioners for the bridegroom Thomas Scott Stabler in Aberdeen for the bride Alexander Mackie Flaxdresser there. Paid to the poor3/4

 

Other marriages on the page also mention that the couples were "privately contracted" or "contracted by warrant". Are these marriages different in any way?
I also said possible ancestors as no children from the marriage have been discovered as yet. We are hoping they may be the parents of Christian Mackie born c 1790-1800.

I hope someone can shed more light on this matter for me. Thank you

[LesleyB]

Hi Grothenwell

I may be wrong, but my understanding of a marriage by Sherriffs warrant would be that it was a post-1855 marriage - the 1774 date puts this event well before 1855. See:
http://www.gla.ac.uk/departments/scotti ... /marriage/

There is no "sherriff" mentioned in the extract from 1774.
Do you know who Mr Ogilvie was, or what position he held? Do you have any clues which lead you to believe that this couple may have been Episcopalian? If you could establish, for instance, that a Mr Ogilvie was an Episcopalian minister in the area at the time, then that may begin to fill in part of the picture.
Check this book ( it is organised by Diocese) :
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Ceey ... &q&f=false

Sorry not to come up with amything more helpful.
I note also your query here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.ph ... ;topicseen
It helps us to help you more efficiently if you let us know where else you have asked questions so that we can pool resources and avoid duplication of effort.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Grothenwell]

Hi Lesley,

Thank you for taking the time to reply and offer insight into my query. I didn't mention the other query as some sites do not like other sites being "name checked", but I am glad to see that it is okay in this one.

The Episcopalian mention was because James and Christien's possible daughter Christian Mackie Grothenwell's family have a few mentions in the Episcopalian records transcribed by A. Strath Maxwell, and I wondered if her possible parents had also been Episcopalians.

Regarding Mr Ogilvie, I don't know what his role was. He isn't mentioned on the rest of the page saved from the SP search, so I presume he was mentioned in one of the preceding pages. There are other men mentioned who have issued warrants of marriage, and with the mention of Sherriff's issuing warrants in the links in the rootschat lexicon, inc the Glasgow Uni one you link, I had thought they may be Sherriffs. Although like you I did wonder about the difference in years. It is a good tip to try and find out Mr Ogilvie's (and the other Warrant issuers: Mr Abercrombie and Mr Lambert Cooper) profession.

Thanks for the links and your help. It is most welcome.

Grothenwell

[SarahND]

Hello Grothenwell,
I have also done some digging in Episcopal records in Aberdeen-- they are to be found in Aberdeen University Special Libraries and Archives, but unfortunately one must go there in person, as nothing is online at the moment. This is their site, where you can search the catalogue:

http://www.abdn.ac.uk/diss/historic/Intro.shtml

The name Ogilvie jumped out at me too from your post, but in looking back at my notes the only references I have is to the Rev Skene Ogilvie who was minister of St Machar's Cathedral. Unfortunately, he wasn't ordained until 1777... so mustn't be a reference to him. It's too bad that the existing Aberdeen directories don't go back that far.

Sorry, not much help

All the best,
Sarah

[Grothenwell]

Hi Sarah,

Thank you for that. I wasn't aware of the Episcopalian records at Aberdeen Uni, I'll have to arrange a visit sometime. I'll also have to try and get a look at those St Nicholas marriage OPR at the ANESFHS to see if there are any clues on the other pages.

Best wishes,

Grothenwell

[LesleyB]

There can't be that many Lambert Coopers about, you'd have thought.... but this one appears to have left no trace in Scotland (IGI)or on SP - no birth, marriage or death in OPRs and no testament either! Hmm.

What is the exact wording? Could he be Mr Lambert who is a Cooper by trade, perhaps?
(Clutching at straws here..... )

[LesleyB]

Could stand the suspense no longer...
Looking at the OPR page, it is by warrant of Mr Forbes, and Robert Lambart, Cooper in Aberdeen is the person being married.

[LesleyB]

Looking at the page, I wonder if these persons are merely presenting the couple to be married and standing as some kind of guarantor for them. In several cases on the page cautioners are given, and normally these would be the folks standing as guarantors, but I wonder if this is some other form of being surety for the couple, maybe there to assure the minister that they were both free to marry, of good character, nothing dodgy going on etc, no doubt with some fee being involved if it was found that they were not as represented? Maybe it might be some "fast track" way to speed through the normal 3 reading of the banns if you had someone respected in the community state all was as should be.

Another thought; might it be that these gents are kirk session members?
Without first names, Messrs Forbes, Ogilvie & Abercrombie & may be difficult to tie down....
However, Mr Forbes' room appears to have been a location for a marriage at the top of the page. Could he be the session clerk?
I reckon a look at the session minutes may be helpful. If Messrs Forbes, Ogilvie & Abercrombie are regularly mentioned as being at meetings then that would help place them, and if not, then we know they are not session members; they may get other mentions which would help place them.

This illustrates very nicely the great disadvantage of seeing only one OPR page out of context and in isolation.

A browse through the OPR microfilm at your local library/FHS ( I note you are in Aberdeen area) would no doubt also help to put these entries into a more meaningful and helpful context for you.

(For what it is worth, my guess would be that Messrs Forbes, Ogilvie & Abercrombie will make regular appearances, but I may be wrong!)

[Grendlsmother]

One of my English ancestors was married in the early 1800s by "special licence". This, as Lesley suggests, meant that the bans did not have to be read. The licence had to be bought but I don't know much else about it. It would seem that the marriage mentioned was the same sort of arrangement, ie no banns.

GM

[Grothenwell]

Hi,

Thank you for the replies.

Lesley, extra thanks for looking on SP and I apologise for saying Mr Lambart Cooper was a warrant issuer, not a Mr Lambart, a Cooper being married! I suspect you are most likely correct, and I will look at the relevant OPRs. The queries I have will remain even then I suspect; why no minister mentioned, was she with child and there was no time for Banns and therefore the payment to the poor. Perhaps the KSMs, if available, might provide the answers and I'll try and get down to read them at some point.

Best wishes,

Grothenwell