OPR marriage- what info would it show? .....

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:25 pm

Hi Heather,

It was dad John's siblings i was wondering about because i didn't know his parents' names. I was hoping they would match the children with the James 53 & Mary 50 in 1841. Glad to see they tally with the children Andy found.

I know you've got all these - it's just to keep me straight! Could the Susan of 1838 be a daur too? Either her mother's name being wrongly written in the OPR, or maybe a transcription error? Only guessing on this.
And you do get the feeling that there was another child between John 1840 & Robert 1845. Is that a 1st Agnes you have in 1841? - or was it meant to be 1847?
-------
JAMES LAWRIE Birth Date: 8 Jan 1833
MARY LAWRIE Birth Date: 1 Jan 1835
? SUSAN DALZIEL LAWRIE Birth: 28 MAY 1838 [Father: JOHN LAWRIE Mother: AGNES MCWILLAM]
JOHN LAWRIE Birth: 22 MAR 1840
Robert - abt 1845
Agnes - abt 1847
Jane - abt 1849
---------
Hopefully the 1861 census will show if there were any more children.

Jack
----
amended - "her name" to "her mother's name".

HK · Post by HK » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:42 am

Hello Jack,
Agnes Laurie 20 May 1841 Abbey,Paisley,Renfrew
father John Laurie ,mother Agnes McMillan

This is my 2xGreat Grannie
She married John Holmes 13th Aug 1868

Their son Matthew is my Great Grampa(By just a bit as he died just 8 months after my Grans birth.

So I'm sure of this daughter for John and Agnes Laurie.I grew up with the stories and have many keepsakes and photos that mjh(my sister)has been very busy making sets of for Mum and me.Great Christmas Present.

HK

HK · Post by HK » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:23 am

From SP:
10 June 1838
Susan Dalziel Lawrie
John Lawrie Agnes McWilliam
(573/02 0003*) (FR603)

2 Dec 1703
Agnes McWilliams/John Leg
Grange (150/00 0003)

This is the only marriage for an Agnes McWilliams I could find.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:53 pm

Hi Heather,

If you could help out with this.

Was your GG-granny Agnes abt 27 yrs old on her 1868 MC to John Holmes? Or was it 21yrs?

It's just that this 1851 census appears to be John LAWRIE & Agnes McMILLAN, and this Agnes is born abt 1847....
--
1851
John LAURIE 42
Agnes 40
Mary 16
John 11
Robert 6
Agnes 4
Jane 2
--
If Agnes was 21 when she married, then an error has crept in with 1841 - and should be 1847?
But if she was 27, then....

Thanks - Jack
----------------
ps - Andy, do you have the address of John when he married Ellen/Helen Browning in 1863?
pps - Heather, do you have Agnes' address from her 1868 MC?
-----

HK · Post by HK » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:13 pm

Hello Jack,both Agnes and John are 23 at their 1868 marriage.
My copy is a bit faint so I scaned it to my computer so I could get a better look.No go.Just a white screen.Tried again same thing.That's when I realized I was pre-scanning and removing the cert.before it was scanned into the comp.There go my hopes and dreams that Bill Gates wants me on the team.
Sorry I can't make out the address at the time she married clearly enough and would only be guessing.
If someone wants to take a look ,send me an address and I will send it on.
HK

HK · Post by HK » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:25 pm

Sorry everyone it seems as if I am part of the mix up.I spent some time going back through my records and then I went back over my searches on SP.
I can confirm John Lawrie and Agnes McMillan did marry 30/12/1831.
I can also confirm 3 children:
James 24 Feb 1833
Mary 1 Feb.1835
and
John 22 March 1840.

*mary's birth is for Sanquhar

The birth I gave you for Agnes Lawrie of 20 May 1841 is for a child born to Matthew Lawrie and Agnes Lochead in Abbey (Paisley)

There was another John Lawrie and Agnes McMillan in the 1700s they had an Agnes 29 Dec.1771 (I checked for a marriage to make sure it wasn't a typo.
There was an Agnes born to a David Laurie and Helen McMillan 30 June 1691.

I have no idea why I said Agnes was born on 20 May 1841.

I can find nothing in my papers ,notes ,indexes,SP searches or tree program I'm using to organise my search.I'm now left guessing.Could Mary's middle name be Agnes or do we know who she marries and are sure their not the same person.Or perhaps Agnes or the registrar have mixed up the parents names on her marriage cert.Any other guesses?
HK

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:43 pm

Hi Heather,

Thanks for the 1868 Marr. Cert. scan. The addresses are John, 5 Barclay St & Agnes, 9? Glen St.
They got married at 10 Glen St - same address as where 3 of Agnes' aunts were living in 1881.

Looks like John & Agnes just upped their age to 23 in 1868 - both being slightly younger. John is 5yrs & Agnes 4yrs in the 1851 census.
Here they are in 1881 [Barclay St was between Canal & George streets].
--
1881 Census Place: Paisley High Church, Renfrew, Scotland
Dwelling: 3 Barclay St
Source: FHL Film 0203581 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 7 Page 7
John HOLMES M 35 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Pattern Maker At Engine Works
Agnes HOLMES M 34 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife
William HOLMES U 12 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
Matthew HOLMES 10 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
Agnes L. HOLMES 2 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur
--
I've my doubts that Mary's middle name was Agnes, but in any case Mary was born 1835 - and both Mary & Agnes are in the 1851 census.
Also very probably has married too! - but you'd need to check the 1858 MC to confirm that it is her.
--
JOHN CRAIG
MARY LAWRIE
Marriage: 09 APR 1858 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
and if it is your Mary, here she is with her family in 1881 [the children are out of sequence].
--
1881 Census Place: Paisley Middle Church, Renfrew, Scotland
Dwelling: 56 Caledonia St
Source: FHL Film 0203583 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 47 Page 1
John CRAIG M 43 M Beith, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Carter
Mary L. CRAIG M 44 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife
Elizabeth CRAIG U 20 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Mill Worker (Thread)
Janet CRAIG U16 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Mill Worker (Thread)
William CRAIG U12 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Message Boy
Agnes CRAIG 10 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Mathew CRAIG 5 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son
Mary CRAIG 16 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Mill Worker (Thread)
Jane CRAIG 7 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
[Caledonia St is at the western end of Glen St]
--
Jack
--
ps - Kaz's original OPR query has sprouted out in all directions...!
--

HK · Post by HK » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:04 pm

Thanks Jack,
But I still can't find a birth for Agnes.Maybe it's missing.I'm not giving up yet.
William Holmes dies on the way round the Cape coming home from Africa.
Matthew Holmes married my Great gran and died 17months later when my Gran was 8 months old of Brights Disease.
Agnes and Joan(called Joanna and not born until 1887) never married.They lived together in Hill House.
Now I have to find proof that Agnes is a child from John and Agnes Laurie or kaz and I don't have a connection.

HK

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:34 pm

Hi Heather,

I think the censuses will provide enough proof - i'll get them as soon as i'm able to.

The censuses will show John & Agnes (McMillan) with their children from 1841 onwards - and there's a good chance they were always in Glen St.

Jack

HK · Post by HK » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:54 am

Thanks Jack,let me know and I'll return the favour.I do like having nice tidy branches on my tree.
HK