OPR-births? .....

Avalon · Post by **Avalon** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:42 pm

I am looking for the birth dates of two ancestors Robert Morrison & Helen Paterson - what I know: They were married in 1843;In the Dunfermline, Fife, 1851 Census ages are 31/27; 1861-42/36; 1871-53/46; 1881 63/56: Death certificate of Robert in January 1884 age is 66; Helen's death in December 1887 age is 63. Checking the census and death ages they would have been born - Robert 1818-20 & Helen 1824-25. Although I can find siblings for both, their birth dates cannot be found on Family Search or Scotlandspeople (have wasted a lot of credits). Any suggestions as to where I might look now?

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:00 am

Hi Avalon
A quick look at:
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files/li ... 9to459.pdf
- would suggest that there are OPR records covering the dates you are interested in (not that it means they are 100% complete - there may be gaps)

Dunfermline
424/9 B 1807-19*
424/12 B 1820-25
424/13 B 1825-34
It states * "See Appendix 1 under reference CH2/592 and 641." - these records will be held at NAS.
CH2/592 is Dunfermline, Abbey Church, Kirk Session
CH2/641 is Dunfermline, North Kirk Session

If you have access to an LDS Family History Centre then you could maybe order the relevant Dunfermline film(s) and check through them. At least you would be able to see for yourself if Robert & Helen are there or not! Someone else may be able to come up with a better idea or a quicker "fix", though!

Best wishes
Lesley

p.s. What are Helen and Robert's parents names as stated on their death entries?

Avalon · Post by **Avalon** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:53 pm

Thank you for this suggestion. I had visited the Family History Centre when I first started but was not successful & the volunteer there was not too familiar with Scottish records. Now that I am a little more experienced!! I shall try them again. Robert's parents were listed as Thomas Morrison & Janet Maule; Helen's George Paterson & Margaret Hutchison, all deceased.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:15 pm

Hi Avalon
With parents' names a quick look on the IGI reveals an interesting twist in the Paterson side - some of those shown below are submitted by members of the LDS church but seem to clearly show a "deviation" from the local Parish Church which may (just may!) give us some clues as to why your Helen may be missing from the OPR records and therefore not on IGI or SP:

GRIZZEL PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 09 AUG 1814
Christening: 28 AUG 1814 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

GEORGE PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 26 JAN 1816
Male Christening: 18 FEB 1816 Queen Anne St Burgher Associate Ch, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

JEAN PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 18 AUG 1817
Christening: 07 SEP 1817 Queen Anne St Burgher Associate Ch, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

MARGARET PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 12 JUL 1819
Christening: 01 AUG 1819 Queen Anne St Burgher Associate Ch, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

WILLIAM PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 04 JUN 1821 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Christening: 21 JUN 1821 Queen Anne St Burgher Associate Ch, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

JEAN PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 JUL 1823
Christening: 20 JUL 1823 Queen Anne St Burgher Associate Ch, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

GEORGE PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 13 MAY 1830 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
JEAN PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 13 MAY 1830 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

DAVID PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 28 JUL 1832 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

I'm away off to check - will report back. I supect the records you need, if they exist, may well be at NAS, not NRH. I've certainly found with my Free Church lot and "Associated Burgh Seceeders" from Limekilns (also Dunfermline Parish) that "like married like" so there is a strong possibility your Robert may be in the same "boat"!

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:34 pm

At
http://www.dswebhosting.info/nas/
This might be worth following up:

RefNo: CH3/568
Title Dunfermline, Associate (burgher) church, Queen Anne Street, United Presbyterian, United Free, Church of Scotland Erskine, united 1974 with Dunfermline, St Andrew's, as St Andrew's-Erskine
Date 1740-1977

There may be births within these records, though I could not be sure.
Not sure where you are based. Best route would be a visit to NAS. [later - whoops, just noticed you are in Canada] Failing that, or if that is "mission impossible" maybe try contacting them:
http://www.nas.gov.uk/

The National Archives of Scotland
H M General Register House
2 Princes Street
Edinburgh
EH1 3YY
Telephone: +44(0)131 535 1314

E-mail: enquiries@nas.gov.uk

Alison Plenderleith · Post by **Alison Plenderleith** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:50 pm

Hi Avalon and Lesley,

I thought this church name looked familiar, so did some checking back through my records. I have a christening there from 1810 which I couldn't find on SP but found on LDS. It's an extract, not a submission. Looked at the batch, no. C190651 which covers 1797 - 1823 but unfortunately there are only 18 records indexed, it stops at Anderson. Luckily for me that was the name I had been searching for!
I don't know if this means the complete batch would be available to search at a Family History Centre or not.
I think I'd follow Lesley's NAS route.

Regards,

Alison

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:27 pm

Hi Avalon & Alison
I just tried putting just the batch number C190651 on IGI and it returns 626 (!) entries christened at Queen Anne Street Burger Associate Church, Dunfermline.....but not the ones we are looking for of course!! One Morrison (not the right family) and no Patersons.

But, as you suggested Alison, this would seem to imply that the records for this church are on the IGI.

The records which were submitted by a LDS member in the IGI (Batch Number: 8611830, also Queen Anne Street Burger Associate Church) would suggest members of the Paterson family are in there somewhere though....not quite understanding why, if the LDS have filmed the births for this church that there seem to be some missing?? Is there maybe more than one book covering the period, one of which has been filmed and one which has not? I can only suggest that NAS may have the answer.

Best wishes
Lesley

Alison Plenderleith · Post by **Alison Plenderleith** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:50 pm

Hi Lesley and Avalon,

How weird! When I entered that batch no. this morning it only returned the 18 Andersons. Just tried again and I got the whole lot

I've come across a few cases where there have been no entries or submitted entries on LDS but no extract, but there has been a record on SP, but I haven't a clue why that should be when looking for records before 1875, as I thought LDS had the lot.

Also confusing is Jean Patterson, extract christened 7th September 1817 Dunfermline, but submission showing Queen Anne St Burgher Associate Church, same date!

I'd definitely try NAS and just [-o< the records are there.

All the best with this,

A

Alison

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:04 pm

Hi Alison
Yes, that is strange - I thought when you said you'd done some checking back through your notes you were looking at something you'd printed out some time ago & I came to the conclusion the LDS must have been very busy adding info since!!!

Best wishes
Lesley

Avalon · Post by **Avalon** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:16 pm

Lesley & Alison: Once again thank you for your suggestions. Although I have used Family Search for some time you have suggested ways of searching I have not been aware of & have not tried - until to-day

Think I shall visit the Family History Centre at the first opportunity & then the NAS. Regards, Jeannie

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